Date: 2024-12-21 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00018326 | |||||||||
Military | |||||||||
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Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess | |||||||||
| What are the capabilities in 2020 of the French Navy (Marine Nationale) compared to the Royal Navy or others navies? Max Jones, Concentrated Research on Modern Naval Warfare (1960-Present) Updated Jan 28 France has a number of significant capabilities produced by its Navy that put it as one of the top three in Europe in most areas, alongside the UK and Italy. There are a few other specific areas where nations such as Germany, Denmark, Spain or the Netherlands may have advantages (most notably air defence). Regardless, as a whole it stands above most with a very strong airborne amphibious warfare capabilities, operating three large LHDs that can operate over a dozen transport helicopters and several landing craft, carrying a battalion of marines to make use of these resources. Paired with the only CATOBAR carrier currently in service outside the US - Charles De Gaulle - it has highly capable advanced power projection capabilities on par with the Royal Navy and otherwise second only really to the US Navy, able to launch long range strikes and landings with decent logistical support. There are quite a few different areas to examples so I am just going to divide them into a number of categories: Air Defence (air and ship-based) Anti-Submarine (air, ship and sub-based) Anti-Ship (air, ship and sub-based) Land Attack (air, and ship-based) Logistics/Auxiliary Amphibious Warfare (air and ship-based) General Patrol duties (air and ship-based) Mine Warfare There are other areas but these cover most of the main ones, particularly in a combat role. I will go through them in varying depths depending on the amount of relevant information I can provide within the confines of this answer. As a disclaimer to clarify, this answer will refer to European nations in the context of most western nation in Europe (members of NATO/EU for the most part). This primarily concerns Russia, which will not be involved in the comparisons below. The major French capitals such as Charles De Gaulle and the Mistral class (both of which pictured above) carry out various roles, ranging from deep inland strikes to command & control capabilities. Air Defence From a ship-based perspective, and even from a wider one, this is arguably one of France’s weaker points. With only two dedicated modern air defence destroyers, it has its hands tied to an extent. One of these vessels will permanently be in maintenance or refit while the other is constantly stationed as an air defence escort for the carrier Charles De Gaulle. A single Cassard-class remains in service but is becoming significantly outdated and probably won’t see more than a single deployment before it is retired. It will be replaced by two of the FREMM frigates possessing additional air defence equipment with a handful of extra long range Aster 30 missiles, although they won’t have any improved radars or large air search/acquisition capabilities. Charles De Gaulle does strengthen this capability significantly with a couple squadrons of Rafale Ms that can carry out strike missions and fleet air defence patrols with the support of AWACS aircraft, although it can only be and one place (and the surrounding hundreds of kilometres) at once, and only on-and-off as it often enters maintenance sessions. As a whole they may easily be five or six European nations with larger fleets of air-defence destroyers, however it may very well rank first in terms of its airborne fleet for air superiority for at least a few years until the UK carriers are fully operational with their AEW systems and at least a couple squadrons of F-35Bs between them. At least for now, top 1 in airborne, just out of top 5 in ship. Adding everything up amounts to 3rd best air defence systems overall behind the UK and Italy, I would say. Anti-Submarine As a whole France has a pretty competent anti-submarine force, although the many aircraft platforms are less accommodating towards it and there are more multirole vessels, meaning less single-purpose dedicated assets for the role. For ship-based assets, the main anti-submarine force for France is its 8 FREMM frigates with anti-submarine torpedoes and an NH90 each, with hull-mounted sonars and towed arrays for detection. These frigates are generally quite capable, being modern and reasonably numerous - comparable to the 8 Type 26s in service with the Royal Navy (albeit slightly smaller). A couple other vessels also carry ASW torpedoes, though this capability is not shared with many of the smaller general purpose frigates used by France. France’s wider anti-submarine airborne forces consists of 8 Lynx helicopters - more dedicated toward the ASW role than basic Lynx models however they are becoming somewhat outdated compared to modern Wildcats used by Britain - and 22 NH90s, often deployed on the frigates however also largely used for transport roles with at least 8 stationed on each Mistral-class. With one or two of the LHDs in service at any given time, up to 16 may be occupied in this capacity leaving a total of 14 dedicated ASW helicopters, 6 modern and 8 slightly older (roughly 1990s tech, give or take for different parts). France still holds onto a substantial force of maritime patrol aircraft with the ASW role however they date back to the early 1960s and serve little effect against modern submarine threats, particularly beyond the confines of the French mainland, even the modernised variants from the 1980s. The French submarine force is divided between its nuclear deterrent and attack submarines. Only the latter are really applicable in most conventional military roles. Currently it has 5 2,700t Rubes-Class SSNs (being replaced through the 2020s by 6 larger 5,300t Suffren-class). These vessels are reasonably capable but small and lacking in armament with space for only 14 torpedoes/missiles, at least a few of which often taken up by anti-ship missiles. France is maybe 5th in aerial strength behind Britain, Spain, Italy and Germany. Its ship-based assets are probably 3rd behind Britain and Italy and its submarine force sits around 3rd/4th with a small but reasonably advanced and somewhat numerous force. Overall it might place around 4th here overall behind Britain, Italy and either Spain or Germany (around 3rd-5th in conflict with these two). Anti-Ship France’s ship-based anti-ship capabilities are relatively standard for Europe, not being much of a priority as with most nations. With such a large force of patrol frigates carrying small numbers of Exocets, however, it probably stands a little ahead of its competitors just by numbers alone. The airborne anti-ship capability is led once again by the carrier and its Rafale Ms, the aircraft not specialising in this role however they may carry Exocets, guided bombs and Storm Shadows missiles, giving them a pretty strong capability if called upon. Various French helicopters can also carry short-range anti-ship weapons. Without as strong dedicated capabilities as Britain with a nearly 30-strong force of modern Wildcats carrying anti-swarm and light anti-ship missiles along with the wider F-35B force coming into action, I think it would be reasonable to assess it as behind the UK in this capacity but ahead of most if not all others. France’s submarine situation doesn’t change too much, with most of their systems being devoted to anti-submarine or anti-ship roles and the same applying to its competitors. It does have more spaces occupied by dedicated anti-ship missiles, though this doesn’t give it a huge advantage aside from a bit of adaptability. As a whole it takes first in ship-based anti-ship weapon systems though it doesn’t offer a huge benefit as ship-launched AShMs are not a primary anti-shipping method. In its main platforms, air and submarine, I would place it roughly 2nd and 4th respectively using the existing established platform. This may put it roughly at 3rd total (2nd-4th), with relatively equal footing between some competitors such as Italy, Spain and Germany, though arguably slightly behind the UK (at least going into the early 2020s - for a year or two it may still be a contender for overall first) Land Attack This is another area led by the air with Charles De Gaulle able to deliver hundreds of thousands of pounds of bombs, missiles and other weapon systems against enemy targets with decent versatility. On a wider scale, this ability is restricted by time (the carrier only available between maintenance, as I have stated repeatedly before) and distance, unable to fight in two theatres at once. This contrasts against nations like the UK and Italy that can maintain some sort of carrier force all-year-round with multiple vessels available. In terms of other aircraft, the Mistral-class carries numerous attack helicopters however these are reliant on other branches of the French military. Lynxes and NH90s may be able to launch certain air-to-ground weapons, though such weapons’ use by the Marine Nationale is limited. With no submarine-based land attack methods, France instead places its cruise missiles on its 8 FREMM frigates (5–6 in service as of 2020) with 16 SCALP missiles on each. These cruise missiles don’t possess the range of tomahawks but are still highly advanced and capable. It certainly puts them ahead of many nations such as Spain and the Netherlands, though still behind Italy using the same systems and Britain with an equivalent through the Tomahawks on board their submarines (only being further enhanced in the future with Type 26s). France, Italy and the UK all place highly in terms of land-attack abilities with differences strengths and weaknesses from the air, although I think for the time being I would have to give overall advantage to France, the difference is only small and the UK may soon take a significant leap ahead. For ship/submarine-based methods it will remain behind the UK and Italy for some time with one more unique competitor being Germany with 4 dedicated 7,200t Baden-Wurttemberg-class frigates carrying 8 cruise missiles compared to 16 on the French vessels however using long range guided shells fired from their 127mm guns to act as smaller cruise missiles themselves. Paired with short range IDAS missiles on the submarines these two are on a relatively even par, placing France at 3/4th by ship-based assets and 1st in air. As a whole, France is roughly 2nd, though I wouldn’t necessarily say either the UK or Italy are far ahead on their own. By the mid 2020s the UK will be several steps ahead of both with equally capable ship-based land attack assets in the Type 26s along with their submarines and the strongest carrier force of the lot. They are generally a relatively evenly balanced top 3 for now, though. Auxiliary France’s auxiliary fleet is relatively small for its general size, attaining to just 3 18,000t Durance-class Replenishment vessels from the 1970/80s. Compared to the massive Royal Fleet Auxiliary France is far from that first place spot, although most European nations don't have massive fleets of support ships. Spain, Italy and Germany are all minor contenders however with Italy’s new 27,000t Vulcano-class (for which France will eventually get 4, but not until the mid-late 2020s) it may take fourth. Second goes to Germany with a far larger force of five replenishment oilers between 14,000t and 20,000t, along with six smaller 3,600t stores ships to carry ammunition and supplies for basic replenishment. I would say Spain might evenly tie with France, operating two similarly sized oilers of 17,000t and 19,500t along with a couple lighter transports. Greece is also at a similar size with two replenishment vessels, a smaller 3,000t tanker and several commercial oilers. I would probably rank them as France for 4, Greece as 5 and Spain as 6, though in some areas it is quite close. As a whole I would rank France as joint 4th-6th alongside Spain and Greece behind Italy, Germany and finally the UK. Amphibious Warfare France’s amphibious warfare capabilities are quite larger currently, as touched on in the introduction. Currently France’s power projection is spearheaded by a three-ship class of 21,500t Mistral-class LHDs, however there isn’t a massive force that follows in terms of large landing ships or LPDs. The main competitors here are the UK with 2 LPDs, 3 LSDs and two fleet carriers capable of acting as large LHDs (carrying up to 50 aircraft); Italy with three small LPDs (being replaced by three very large LHDs and possibly an additional smaller LHA); Spain with a 27,000t LHD/Carrier and two 14,000t LPDs; and the Netherlands with three LPDs growing up to 28,000t. In terms of airborne capabilities alone, the navy’s air arms are laid out as follows: France - 16 Panther (10 passengers, 160 total), 16 NH90 (20 passengers, 320 total) - 480 immediate air lift capability total. UK - 25 Merlin (30 passengers, 750 total) - 750 immediate air lift capability total (plus potential embarked chinooks). Italy - 8 Merlin (30 passengers, 240 total), 10 NH90 (20 passengers, 200 total) - 440 immediately air lift capability total. Spain - 7 NH90 (20 passengers, 140 total) - 140 immediate air lift capability total. Netherlands - 8 merlin (30 passengers, 240 total) - 240 immediate air lift capability total. Going by air lift capability, assuming they are able to load the aircraft appropriately, the UK takes a strong lead with 47% more troops able to embark aboard its aircraft than France, the runner up. Italy is almost on par with Italy and should more-or-less catch up in terms of ships with Trieste and up to three more amphibious assault ships of around 18,000–20,000t. Spain and Netherlands are falling behind a bit, with the Netherlands focusing on ship-based deployments and Spain doing the same, though putting less attention into amphibious warfare as a power projection tool as a whole. In terms of landing craft and similar vessels, a similar comparison can be made: France - 6 EDA-R (300t/54 passengers, 1,800t total), 12 CTM LCM (56t/40 passengers, 672t total) - total transport displacement of 2,470t or 804 passengers. UK - 10 LCU Mk.X (240t/120 passengers, 2,400t total), 19 LCVP Mk.V (24t 35 passengers, 456t total), 4 LCAC (6.8t/16 passengers, 27.2t total) - total transport displacement of 2,885t total or 1,930 passengers. Italy - 9 LCM64 (75t/90 passengers, 675t total), 8 LCM MTM217 (65t/80 passengers, 520t total), 20 LCVP MTP96 (14t/45 passengers, 280t total) - total transport displacement of 1,475t or 2,350 passengers. Spain - 12 LCM-1E (110t/170 passengers, 1,320t total), 19 AAV-7s (29t/21 passengers, 551t total) - total transport displacement of 1,870t or 2,440 passengers. Netherlands - 5 LCU Mk.IIs (255t/130 passengers, 1,275t total), 12 LCVP Mk.V (23t/35 passengers, 276t total) - total transport displacement of 1,550t or 1,070 passengers. Given that the passenger figures seem highly inconsistent from vehicle to vehicle either due to different criteria by which to measure passenger capacity or due to particular vessels being more cargo-oriented than passenger focused (such as the French EDA-Rs), I will go by total displacement. The UK has the largest total landing craft displacement at 2,885t though France is close at nearly 2,500t. Italy’s landing craft are generally quite small, all in the 10–100t range but numerous with almost forty vessels in total, good for light infantry transport. Spain and the Netherlands both carry smaller loads with about 1,500–2,000t total between them, Netherlands using a spread of lighter LCVPs and large LCUs while Spain operates a large number of medium sized LCMs and numerous very light Amphibious AFVs. Drawing from these different elements, it seems the UK generally has the greater overall amphibious warfare and power projection capabilities, although its larger vessels available to regularly use them may be more restricted with the QE-class often occupied with regular carrier duties. Otherwise, France appears to beat out all of its competitors for second place, arguably placing higher on regular operations when the UK is focusing its efforts in air superiority or strike operations. It is possible that Italy may close that gap and perhaps even take over in the mid 2020s as it develops its LHDs fleet. General Patrol Duties France’s surface vessels form a vast patrol fleet. For ship-based patrol, the Marine Nationale operates numerous corvettes/avisos of around 1,000–3,000t such as the 1,270t A69, operating 100mm guns, short range ASW weapons and a couple of Exocets and 3,000t Floreal-class, operating similar weapons barring the ASW systems, instead fitting a flight deck and hangar for a Panther patrol helicopter for general utility purposes. These two classes make up 13 ships, not quite capable enough to act as full-side warships - they certainly would be able to withstand attacks from submarines or missile craft but would be perfectly capable in maintaining maritime security in an area of sea against piracy and other low levels threats. On the larger end of things, the French Navy also operates five La Fayette-class frigates that don’t necessarily fill a dedicated role like anti-submarine or anti-air, fitting a similar profile to that of the Type 31 with 24 Crotale short range SAMs, a 100m gun and 8 AShMs while maintaining facilities for a utility helicopter (compared to 24 Sea Ceptor, a 57mm gun and possibly the same AShM load out with aviation facilities on a Type 31). At 3,600t these frigates can hold their own against most serious hostiles but don’t have much of a role in a modern navy outside these patrol duties and maybe as a light peacetime escort for missile defence. France also has a handful of miscellaneous patrol vessels raining from a few hundred tonnes to a few thousand. These are typically only armed with machine guns and occasionally the odd auto cannon, but don’t impact the wider military strength of the nation too much. For aerial patrol, France has 15 panther utility helicopters that operate alongside many of these vessels such as the Floreal-class, La Fayette-class and one or two of the largest patrol ships. There are also about a dozen fixed wing jets for general patrol and surveillance duties. As a whole I think France has the largest patrol capabilities by far in Europe, with few nations having many surveillance aircraft in their air arms and often only a handful of light patrol frigates or corvettes, particularly among larger nations like the UK. Italy is one primary competitor, probably takes second place with 10 OPVs about 1,500t each which will be replaced by even larger, more capable and more numerous PPA - effectively full sized warships ranging from 4,900t to 5,000t with ASW torpedoes, cannons, anti-ship missiles, SAMs and even land-attack cruise missiles on board, numbering up to 16 by the 2030s-2040s. For at least the next 5–10 years, though, France should stay on top. Mine Warfare France’s minesweeper flotilla is decent though not the largest in Europe with ten 605t vessels (total of 6,050t) compared to: UK - 13 mine warfare vessels (6 750t, 7 600t - 8,700t total) Germany - 12 mine warfare vessels (2 classes, 650t - 7,800t total) Poland - 21 mine warfare vessels (4 classes, 16 215t, 2 500t, 3 850t - 6,990t total) Italy - 10 mine warfare vessels (8 720t, 2 500t - 6,750t total) Netherlands - 6 mine warfare vessels (605t - 3,630t) Spain - 6 mine warfare vessels (585t - 3,510t total) Belgium - 5 mine warfare vessels (536t - 2,680t total) Norway - 6 mine warfare vessels (2 classes, 375t - 2,250t total) Setting aside technology - which is difficult to fully address but generally quite evenly matched in most areas as many nations share technology and ship lasses (for example, the French class is the same or a variant of that used by Belgium and Netherlands) - France sits comfortably in fifth with plenty of space behind it. Italy will be retiring most of its minesweepers soon however they should be replaced by a similar if not larger class soon after. Summary France is generally in the top 5 for most areas here, for general, simplified reference: Air Defence - 3rd Anti-Submarine - 2nd-4th Anti-Ship - 2nd-4th Land Attack - 1st-3rd Logistics/Auxiliary - 4th-5th Amphibious Warfare - 2nd General Patrol duties - 1st Mine Warfare - 5th Average: 3rd Obviously this shouldn’t necessarily be taken as a general comparison of France’s overall capabilities as different areas have more or less importance to different nations depending on their needs. Still, while not entirely objective, I hope that it provides a good guideline for France’s general capabilities in comparison to its local allies. 9.3k viewsView UpvotersView Sharers Recommended All Jon Hurwitz Jan 26 · 3 upvotes including Max Jones Impressive summary. I think a mention of the six new 80m OPVs for the southern hemisphere would cement their first place in patrol capabilities (for European navies). Including the Triomphant class subs might put an alternative spin on the idea that they have no submarine-based land attack. | |||||||||