Date: 2024-12-21 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00019161
Event - webinar - dialog
Arms trade
Webinar organized in the UK about Ending the Global Arms Trade
Peter Burgess
- - Siana Bangura
- - Amina Atiq, Yemeni (poet based in Liverpool)
- - Melina Villeneuve (Demilitarise Education) ... moderator
- - Sham Murad ('A' is for Activism)
- - Dr. Nadine El-Enany (Birkbeck University)
- - Greta Zarro (World Beyond War)
- - Dr. Kojo Koram (Birkbeck University)
- - Rita Dayoub (Health Workers at the Frontline)
- - Dr. Leon Sealey-Huggins (Warwick University)
You 02:21 PM This is a great conversation!!!!!! Saudi Arabia is a SUNY nation. Iran is SHIA ... and the military industry complex loves the competition. Before that for decades the West -v- the USSR was cold but enabled huge sales of military equipment. I am from the UK but have lived in the USA and worked around the world for 60+ years ... my dream is to spend as much on civilian international socio-enviro-economic development as we do on military might ... that would really change the world for the better!
You 02:26 PM One of the root causes of the trade in military equipment is that the dominant metric for economic progress and performance is profit, and for that there must be a maximum of sales. There are no serious metrics for the human impact arising from the use of military equipment nor the environmental impact. My goal is to make these sorts of metrics ubiquitous, easy and driven by society in general and not the PR departments of the producing companies and politicians.
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Marilyn Konstapel 01:55 PM Can the audience receive the words to Amina's poetry? It was beautiful. And she is so rigth, art often makes us connect more to the realities of people's experiences, rather than just statistics. Melina Villeneuve 02:32 PM Some of her poetry is in this CAAT zine: https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/caat-news/pdf/caatnews253-dsei-zine.pdf
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You 02:21 PM This is a great conversation!!!!!! Saudi Arabia is a SUNY nation. Iran is SHIA ... and the military industry complex loves the competition. Before that for decades the West -v- the USSR was cold but enabled huge sales of military equipment. I am from the UK but have lived in the USA and worked around the world for 60+ years ... my dream is to spend as much on civilian international socio-enviro-economic development as we do on military might ... that would really change the world for the better!
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You 02:26 PM One of the root causes of the trade in military equipment is that the dominant metric for economic progress and performance is profit, and for that there must be a maximum of sales. There are no serious metrics for the human impact arising from the use of military equipment nor the environmental impact. My goal is to make these sorts of metrics ubiquitous, easy and driven by society in general and not the PR departments of the producing companies and politicians.
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You 02:47 PM Nadine probably knows this legal history far better than I do, but I am not sure how these various legal observations link or correlate to the broader societal and economic progress and performance of the UK and the world ... looking back has some value, but thinking about how to move forward based on the realities of modern technology and possibilities is the huge opportunity that I think is going to be missed based on the presentations that I am listening to ............ PeterB
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From Carmen to Everyone: 01:24 PM Hello Melina and Siana!
From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 01:24 PM Wow! I'd love to know how many we actually end up with here. Y'all got this!
From Siana Bangura to Everyone: 01:28 PM hashtag is #CAATArmsTrade101
From Kirsten Bayes to Everyone: 01:28 PM hashtag is #CAATArmsTrade101
From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 01:29 PM Hello - from Kjipuktuk, Halifax - Nova Scotia Voice of women for peac:) ...keeping it broad:)
From Kellie White to Everyone: 01:29 PM Hiya from Belfast!
From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 01:30 PM hi Voice of Women for Peace - nice to meet you Siana and Melina....waving from the ocean waves
From Cath Attlee to Everyone: 01:30 PM Hi, from North London
From Amina Atiq to Everyone: 01:30 PM liverpoool
From Rebekah Sears to Everyone: 01:30 PM Hello from Fredericton, New Brunswick Canada
From MARLA SLAVNER to Everyone: 01:30 PM Hello from Canadian Voice of Women for Peace and the Global Sunrise Project - Toronto
From Cath Attlee to Everyone: 01:30 PM What's with the anti North London vibe?
From Peggy Roeske to Everyone: 01:31 PM Peggy Roeske from White Bear Lake, MN
From Carmen to Everyone: 01:31 PM From New Mexico but coming to you from Manchester!!
From paula suarez-lopez to Everyone: 01:32 PM From Colchester, UK
From Siana Bangura to Everyone: 01:33 PM hashtag is #CAATArmsTrade101
From Alison Williams to Everyone: 01:33 PM Hello from Wimbledon in London everyone - Alison
From Kirsten Bayes to Everyone: 01:33 PM hashtag is #CAATArmsTrade101
From MARLA SLAVNER to Everyone: 01:33 PM Feel free to add us on linkedin. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kasha-sequoia-slavner-64b83a70/
From Andrew Fleming to Everyone: 01:34 PM I couldn't believe the news last night that the govt has approved restart of arms sales to Saudi Arabia!
From Kellie White to Everyone: 01:35 PM They hadn't stopped, even after the ruling.
From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 01:35 PM Because our governments are awful...
From Dennis O'Malley to Everyone: 01:35 PM Hello ! My ageing Imac has got me halfway into this meeting but won't allow me to have either a picture or sound...This rather reduces the impact the meeting is having upon me. lol Will it be available on FB or UTube after the event?...
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From Me to Everyone: 01:41 PM Hi ... the military industry complex is a terrible driver of the modern world ... but the accounting and accountability of this industry is appallingly weak. I am in my 80s but had the chance to visit PDRY and YAR for the World Bank about 30 years ago !!!!!!!!!
From Lewis Kay-Thatcher to Everyone: 01:42 PM Is the mic covered a little? It’s a bit hard to hear
From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 01:45 PM Twitter: @AminaAtiqPoetry
From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 01:45 PM I grew up in Yemen, and the US is also complicit. I resonate with all of those conflicted feelings. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 01:46 PM ** Hashtag for tonight: #CAATArmsTrade101 ** From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 01:51 PM <3 <3 <3 <3 From Nadia Khan to Everyone: 01:51 PM You are so incredibly talented From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 01:53 PM Thank you for speaking the words that the hearts of a generation don't know how to articulate. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 01:53 PM Absolutely beautiful and moving <3 = thank you Amina! From paula suarez-lopez to Everyone: 01:53 PM Thank you so much, Amina! From MARLA SLAVNER to Everyone: 01:53 PM So powerful. Thanks you!!! <3 From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 01:53 PM thanku Amina! xxx From Deborah Sowerby to Everyone: 01:54 PM Thank you Amina. From Annette Rebentisch to Everyone: 01:54 PM thank you From Kellie White to Everyone: 01:54 PM Solidarity Amina, we stand with you and Yemen. From Carmen to Everyone: 01:54 PM Peace and love Amina, that was beautiful. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 01:57 PM More from Amina: #Twitter: @AminaAtiqPoetry#www.aminaatiq.com From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 01:58 PM I've just come from a Stand Up To Racism webinar. This is all part of the same vested interests going back through history From Amina Atiq to Everyone: 01:58 PM Thank you everyone for the lovely words. To highlight I am only one of Yemeni artists with the privilege to write and read my work. I network with talented Yemeni artists based in Yemen and I can connect you to their work. From Margaret Owen to Everyone: 01:58 PM wonderful you lovely daughter of YEMEN Its so moving to hear your young clear truthful voice So terrible that UK describes Saudis acts as ' isolated incidents' so arms sales continue for other geo polticla reason like Turkey who we sell arms to, and not isolated incidents there..but deliberate targets are civilians refugee camps, yezidi homeland, women suffering, and these are war crimes
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From Me to Everyone: 01:59 PM Yemen has such a sad history ... very complex and very very long. I remember seeing many shiploads of Soviet arms being landed in Nishtun near the Oman border in the late 80s From Daniel Flynn to Everyone: 02:00 PM See The origins and design of the Corporation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3E4gkwW93Y&fbclid=IwAR1KV21tjapbL-hEkwZx7rcC9wOZI9pBXOF3OVyldb1GokHtuW4DtRBC8ok From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:00 PM Welcome Sham! From Amina Atiq to Everyone: 02:00 PM https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/yemen-art-gallery-arsheef-1202674677/ From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 02:02 PM MSF gave coordinates of hospitals to Saudi Arabia and they were promptly bombed From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:04 PM Welcome Guy - thanks for joining us from Cameroon! From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:04 PM yes! From Daniel Flynn to Everyone: 02:06 PM And the U.S. unfortunately bombed the MSF hospital in Kunduz, Afghanistan even though the coordinates were thoroughly and widely communicated because the Afghan Army was embarrassed that the Taliban had overrun Kunduz. Putin followed the U.S. example and began bombing hospitals. From Nematullah Ahangosh to Everyone: 02:07 PM True Daniel! it was certainly a war crime which caused MSF to close their branch there in 2015. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:09 PM https://www.caat.org.uk/media/press-releases/2020-07-07
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From Me to Everyone: 02:11 PM The facts that Sham Murad is describing are numbing ... but at the same time there are deep hostilities around the region that add to a huge complexity that sort of excuses flows of military equipment ........ From Nadia Khan to Everyone: 02:11 PM Not just the Middle East but also funding extremist groups in the UK and across Asia From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:12 PM Thank you so much Sham! From Nadia Khan to Everyone: 02:12 PM https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-imam-fired-saudi-funded-mosque-criticising-saudi-royal-family From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:13 PM Peter - sort of excuses? From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:13 PM Folks - please feel free to keep sending your qs in the Q&A box! The first batch will be answered after our third speaker From Kellie White to Everyone: 02:15 PM @Peter do you not think that if the region had no access to arms and wasn't at 'war'.. both of which are based on imperialism and racism.. the region would look very different and based on what the people who live there want? From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 02:16 PM Defunding policing is a continuum that merges with militarism and unlimited funding for killing machines. How integral is transformation of toxic masculisnities to change in both areas? From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:16 PM @Kathrin - great question! Please pop that in the Q&A box and we’ll get it answered From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 02:16 PM spelling error...masculinities, in case it wasn't clear...:) From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:19 PM chilling and fascinating From Jared Greenspan to Everyone: 02:20 PM I watched an interview the other day between David Pakman and a former counterterrorism professional and he said you should never start a war on a common noun, only should be on a proper noun. A war on drugs, terrorism can just go on and on From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:20 PM and now war on covid From Kellie White to Everyone: 02:24 PM there isn't enough space for expletives to describe the vile war on drugs and the incarceration policy that goes with it. pure racism. From Jared Greenspan to Everyone: 02:24 PM Im reading Michelle Alexander’s The New Jim Crow currently From Sham Murad to Everyone: 02:24 PM Good read- Angela Davis, Are Prisons Obsolete? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pejy0J3e7R2B5bEe4A2bXMqLt8JGD-gl/view - free pdf From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:25 PM Great read Jared! From Margaret Owen to Everyone: 02:28 PM I am fascinated by Kajo on Columbia the arms that have done such terrible damage to women the pesticides the land, the drugs...the peace treaty has not helped the many many women, especially indigenous women, the widows and half widows ( 82,000 missing people, more than anywhere else in world), the way pesticides into the food train..the sexual violence with the availability of guns everywhere that's why we have to get women behind the campaign to stop this lethal trade From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:29 PM Amazing Kojo! Absolutely vital connections being made there From Sham Murad to Everyone: 02:31 PM Also a good read regarding what Kojo said, Blood in my Eye - George Jackson https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/books/NewAfrika/BloodInMyEye_JacksonG.pdf From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:31 PM For those asking - some of Amina’s poetry can be found in this CAAT zine: https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/caat-news/pdf/caatnews253-dsei-zine.pdf From Me to Everyone: 02:31 PM I agree with Kojo Koram in terms of his description of history ... but why is it that there has been so little progress in solving the core problems ... we have done a very poor job of MANAGING what needs to be managed in order to actually move the needle From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:34 PM More from Nadine in her new book: https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526145420/ From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:36 PM and since 2010 explicit poicy to militarise schools From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:43 PM Speakers so far: #Sham: @bitterarab#Kojo: @KojoKoram#Nadine: @NadineElEnany##@CAATuk#@WorldBeyondWar##** Hashtag for tonight: #CAATArmsTrade101 ** From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 02:46 PM yes yes yes! From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:46 PM Thank you SO MUCH Nadine! From Amina Atiq to Everyone: 02:48 PM Yes From Reema Ismail to Everyone: 02:50 PM thank you for asking my question :) From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:51 PM More on CAAt case here: https://www.caat.org.uk/campaigns/stop-arming-saudi/judicial-review From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 02:52 PM ...thank you Sham...canada has to do this too...turn the tanks to hospital emergency rooms\ From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:53 PM YES! Diversification of our industries! From Fiona McMurran to Everyone: 02:55 PM reposting this to everybody: From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 02:57 PM Absolutely jessie! From Sham Murad to Everyone: 02:59 PM A great display of masculinities and its effect on power - https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/948355557022420992?lang=en From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 03:02 PM add to that the white male (police officer) fear of black masculinity From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:03 PM See, Bengal Famine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study From Ruthie Howard to Everyone: 03:04 PM social Darwinism is alive and well. From jenny stimac to Everyone: 03:08 PM the same in canada with the legalization of pot From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:08 PM Feel free to take a 2 minute stretch whilst Leon gets his presentation up! From Margaret Owen to Everyone: 03:15 PM please don't ignore the gender issues on both sides of the coin no or very few women on the supply side decisions....but women predominate as the victims of human rights violations so we do need to get more women on the international trade committee on the procurement monitoring side as gender issues sidelined in the decisions made Look at the horrors for women and childrn in yemen the ruined hospitals the stealing of children for child soldiery the complete breakdown under the war and the pandemic of the health services Margaret owen From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:15 PM deep anxiety at the years coming closer and closer From Melina Villeneuve to Everyone: 03:16 PM Seriously... From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:16 PM For those asking about Israel and other specific countries - the CAAt website has plenty for you to look at. Here is the country age for Israel: https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/countries/israel From Melina Villeneuve to Everyone: 03:16 PM The worst countdown From jenny stimac to Everyone: 03:16 PM Is Jamaica part of any ‘free trade’ agreements as I just learned that since 2005 the Dominican Republic has been in CAFTA-DR which has pushed unemployment to record levels. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:17 PM @Margaret I think it’s a fair argument that more women involved in the global arms trade is not we want, surely but actually for it to end full stop From Margaret Owen to Everyone: 03:17 PM sure and climate change droughts floods people flee women and children left without food security the poverty and hunger now killing even more people than covid 19 as no food, and the cash cropping is over and people left with no work even as poorly paid agricultural labourers From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:18 PM For those asking about Turkey - we are building on our country info but check our the CAAT website for more: https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/countries/turkey From Dan Hudson to Everyone: 03:19 PM Hey y'all, this material is incredibly heavy and can be overwhelming on so many fronts. Make sure you are caring for yourself (leaning on your supports, getting exercise, writing poetry etc.). You can't fight the system if you are sick in your soul. From Me to Everyone: 03:19 PM Why is there so little meaningful action to actually address any of the BIG risks that our society needs to address? I argue it is because the only metric that big powerful decision makers concern themselves with is profit and their own wealth ... we the people / the majority of society in general / ordinary peole (black white and brown) really don't matter and nobody really gives a damn about the environment. From Helena Robb to Everyone: 03:20 PM what about over population? From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:21 PM Another great book on this and free PDF From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:21 PM Cheeck out this excellent report by CAAt research Sam on climate justice and the arms trade here: https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/publications/government/fighting-the-wrong-battles-feb2020.pdf From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:22 PM This Changes Everything - Naomi Klein writes really well about capitalist disparities between the elite colonialists and the developing countries. Climate change isn’t a mistake! https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/english/currentstudents/undergraduate/modules/fulllist/special/litenvironecol/syllabus19-20/naomi-klein-this-changes-everything-capitalism-vs-the-climate.pdf From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:22 PM More useful reading on climate and the arms trade: https://www.tni.org/en/article/climate-change-energy-security-and-arms-trade From Me to Everyone: 03:23 PM Good to know about history ... but why is it that young academics don't seem to be particularly interested in actually setting up practices that will actually solve the problems and move the needle ... From Kellie White to Everyone: 03:23 PM the only way to end all of this is to end capitalism, refuse green capitalism, end globalisation (as well as war and arms) and become self-sufficient. nothing should be on the roads, on/in the water or in the air if it is not fossil free and hasn't been made by extraction. retro fit homes with windmills or a small watermill for power, look at hemp oil for fuel etc.. mass green power projects are based on extraction and destroy life.. put the technology into people's homes instead. From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:24 PM From Sam FYI re Israel: Israel's arms sales are worth about $7.5b a year. They are probably about the 4th-6th biggest arms seller in the world From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:25 PM Plenty of young organisations that exist doing that Peter! Check out Youth Strike 4 Climate regarding this From Me to Everyone: 03:28 PM I understand the bashing of history but why is the actual world we are living in today so dysfunctional. Racism is real problem today, but so are about a dozen other things and ALL of them need to be addressed in a practical way at scale and pretty quickly. The capitalism of the 19th century needs to modernized recognizing that we have huge improvements in productivity but very little of that actually reaches most of the world's ordinary people (of which I am one) .......... From jenny stimac to Everyone: 03:28 PM one slogan is that “the military is missing” in the climate targets for carbon emissions From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:29 PM Thanks so much Leon! From jenny stimac to Everyone: 03:29 PM see Tanya Lorincz 9hope I have her name right) From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:29 PM THE DREAM! From Helena Robb to Everyone: 03:29 PM and the devastation of Canadian Mining in the Carbbeans From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:30 PM After Greta speaks, we will have part 2 of the Q&A and the roundup! From Furquan Gehlen to Everyone: 03:30 PM @Jenny her name is spelled Tamara Lorincz From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:39 PM So honoured! From Sham Murad to Everyone: 03:43 PM ALSO regarding Kojo’s talk earlier, he referenced michelle Alexander, this is a free PDF of her book The New Jim Crow which analyses the militarisation of police and racist drug laws effect and its disparities on black communities as opposed to others https://www.vanderbilt.edu/ctp/The_New_Jim_Crow.pdf From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:44 PM Thanks Sham! And Sham runs a book club and they now have a website! From Lewis Kay-Thatcher to Everyone: 03:47 PM As someone who's slowly being worn down by despair and feeling unable to know what to do to help this whole talk has been so inspiring and motivating. Thank you so much all, can't wait to get more involved! 💕 From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:48 PM Thank you so much Lewis! We are so thankful you’re feeling a bit more motivated and inspired! <3 From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:57 PM https://twitter.com/laatcanada?lang=en-gb From Ian Pocock to Everyone: 03:58 PM https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/04/the-inside-story-of-the-uks-nhs-coronavirus-ventilator-challenge - BAE Systems but I think there were other companies too From kathrin winkler to Everyone: 03:58 PM thank you so so much - au revoir:) From jenny stimac to Everyone: 03:59 PM Great webinar. Not expected by me but enlightened by intersectionality and linking of issues. From paulette Schroeder to Everyone: 03:59 PM I came in late, but really appreciated the knowledge of all and the new ideas you have given....thanks! sr. paulette Schroeder From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 03:59 PM Thanks so much Jenny and Paulette! From Greta Zarro to Everyone: 04:02 PM Labour Against the Arms Trade: https://twitter.com/LAATCanada From Fiona McMurran to Everyone: 04:05 PM It’s been a decade since the Toronto G20, the scandalous instance of federal, provincial and municipal powers combining their “security” forces in the name of protecting international attendees at the G8 and G20 meetings against peaceful protestors. The largest peacetime incarceration of people apprehended by police/military for such crimes as sitting peacefully in a park occurred on that weekend, along with innumerable acts of violence perpetrated by security forces on unarmed and peaceful individuals. It gave many of us white Canadians a real and frightening illustration of the kind of state violence that racialized people know only too well, and the fear that they live with all the time, as the new @BlackLivesMatter movement is bringing home to us now. From Nadine El-Enany to Everyone: 04:05 PM You can get my book (B)ordering Britain: Law, race and empire at half price - £10 with the code OTH583 here https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526145420/ From Nadia Khan to Everyone: 04:06 PM This has been such a wholesome event - thank you all for the discussion. Can we follow up with any of the speakers? From Kellie White to Everyone: 04:06 PM Thank you all, we need complete systemic change.. and thank you Greta for the shout out! From Fiona McMurran to Everyone: 04:06 PM Fabulous webinar — thanks to all. From Helena Robb to Everyone: 04:06 PM thank you all! From Siana Bangura (CAAT) to Everyone: 04:06 PM Limited spaces left for sign up - CAAT Reading Group series directly following on from conversations and provocations from tonight’s panel: https://zoom.us/meeting/register/tJMld-6rrjkpE918xKjdSbs6duWWWYEFckHO From Libby Ruffle to Everyone: 04:07 PM Thank you all so much for this event, and especially for your energy hosting, Melina From Kirsten Bayes to Everyone: 04:07 PM A pleasure. From Furquan Gehlen to Everyone: 04:07 PM Thanks for organizing this webinar and thanks to all the panelists From Jemima Pilgrim-Morris to Everyone: 04:08 PM Thank you all! From Charlotte Akin to Everyone: 04:08 PM Thank you all that was FANTASTIC From Leon Sealey-Huggins to Everyone: 04:08 PM Thanks A From Sham Murad to Everyone: 04:09 PM thanks for the code nadine! From Nadine El-Enany to Everyone: 04:09 PM My pleasure From Leon Sealey-Huggins to Everyone: 04:09 PM *Thanks All. Was a pleasure From Kojo Koram to Everyone: 04:09 PM Wonderful event. Learnt so much from the conversation From Me to Everyone: 04:09 PM THANKS .. TrueValueMetrics.org ... Peter Burgess