Date: 2025-04-04 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00025421
THE UKRAINE WAR
TIMES RADIO TALKS WITH SIMON WOODIWISS
Times Radio: ‘Profound weakness’ could force Putin into a winter ‘rout’ | Simon Woodiwiss
TIMES RADIO TALKS WITH SIMON WOODIWISS
Times Radio: ‘Profound weakness’ could force Putin into a winter ‘rout’ | Simon Woodiwiss
Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ibVWMuCuYc
Peter Burgess COMMENTARY
Peter Burgess
Times Radio
Sep 15, 2023
529K subscribers ... 19,434 views ... 1.2K likes
Frontline | The War in Ukraine and Global Security
Russian troops are at risk of being ‘routed’ as bad weather sets in this winter, says Simon Woodiwiss.
Simon Woodiwiss is the director of https://objectiveua.com/.
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Explore the podcast 75 episodes Frontline | The War in Ukraine and Global Security Times Radio Podcasts Transcript Follow along using the transcript. Show transcript Times Radio 529K subscribers Videos About 371 Comments Peter Burgess
TRANSCRIPT
no one likes the idea of being out flanked when these when ukrainians do do penetrate more deeply all these unisoft to the site they'll start getting very very ttch indeed um and um we'll see we'll see I think we're going to see a bit of a route I'm assuming when that happens so hello and welcome to front line for times radio with me kbo and today we are joined from keev in Ukraine by former British army officer Simon Woods Simon was an infantry officer before working around the world as a security specialist managing risks for large infrastructure companies he's now based in Ukraine as director of objective UA where last year he worked with a variety of combat units along with Battalion and Brigade commanders Simon welcome to front line and we can see Keiv behind you can you just tell us a little bit more about the nature of your work and what's going on in Kei at the moment sure um well as you can see it's beautiful sunny day here in Kei um this is pretty much every day for the last few months the skies are not full of Russian aircraft they're not full of drones um there's nothing like that happening that is a fairly rare occurrence these days thanks to the final work of the Ukrainian air defense boys and girls um just behind me you can see some Mel church it's a monastery that's also used as a hospital in fact and and an are and a place for people to to get better obviously and down in the foreground you've got a whole load of smashed up Russian armored vehicles which have been there for pretty much a whole of the war so so bar seeing those those those tanks there um I mean does life at the moment feel relatively normal in key you're very normal yeah there's lots of fantastic restaurants people are going back about their daily business there's a conference going on right here in this hotel I'm actually on the roof of the Intercontinental Hotel right now uh so I'm very grateful for the general manager allowing me to use the spaces not where I normally hang out unfortunately well fortunately but um as you can see it's um it's a great looking place to come and work so Simon in your role as director of objective UA can you just explain a bit more what you're doing exactly sure um it's it's basically education and risk management we've also got a a training Wing um that's part of objective UA um it's called heat ukraine. comom so heat stands for hostile environment awareness training so that's medical training wine awareness unexpired ESS that sort of thing how to conduct yourselves in in hostile environment it's not really that hostile here but um there are obviously some some heightened risks the further closer you get to the front line um so there's that's that's the training part of the company um we're speaking to a lot of a lot of NGS speaking to a lot of um multinationals back in the UK and around the world in fact thank you and around the world in fact to um just basically TR to try to get them to manage their risks better um as I said it's a it's a process of Education because a lot of people have got a fairly div to what's going on here in Ukraine and actually it's a it's a relatively benign environment as I said earlier on there's you know the sky are not full of Russian aircraft and drones stuff does come this way occasionally but um very very r rarely gets into the city uh the biggest danger if there is anything coming is a little bit of falling debris but um it's it's it's really a bit relatively benign business environment so what we're trying to do as I said is is educate people tell them what it's really like here to encourage and support them when they do come over here introduce them to the right people make sure they're comfortable doing business and and hopefully help them to to improve the situation here in Ukraine and and how is it working are you are you finding that there is an interest to to invest to come to Ukraine set up in Ukraine huge amount of Interest cre that's um yeah I'm glad you asked that I mean that there are there are some blockers I'm afraid and those include the cost of insurance so whereas in somewhere like Iraq or Afghanistan it's a bit of a it was an easier win for a lot of the big companies they knew that because the blood and treasure had been sped by people from their own governments Etc or their own countries well um they knew that the contracts were going to be coming their way in Ukraine it's very different you know they're sophisticated proud very bright people their economy is um is is definitely going to be moving in the right direction and not too distant future there's all sorts of manufacturing here they've got a very strong tech industry here um so companies coming here might not see the obvious the obvious benefits immediately so if you got um prohibitive insurance premiums then um then obviously you're going to have to be people are going to be thinking twice about whether or not they want to come here what I'm trying to do at the moment is to I'm communicating with with several people Brokers Underwriters actores and syndicates and lawyers in London and working with a couple of companies and what we're planning to do is bring people over here show them what it's really like and giving away some of our some of our some our intentions in fact um and we're also going to be running seminars in the UK so if anyone's interested in being involved in those to either come over here and see what it's really like and to meet the right people or to come to some of our seminars in London when we run this soon and again getting get it touched and just to talk a little bit more about the work you were doing last year um when you worked with combat units um along with the Battalion and Brigade commanders can you tell me a bit more the kind of advice you were giving or or how you were involved exactly how to do things it's going to sound a little bit a little bit sharp maybe um how to do things in a more professional manner um like we would do back in the west it's a fact I'm afraid um you know there's still a bit of a sort of Soviet mentality where there was certainly back then when it came to combat operations um we were not as involved uh some people might think and certainly not as involved as as many other brave people that came here to help Ukraine um but where what we tried to do is educate people in changing tactics and to using bits of equipment in a more effective Manner and um and to win basically to win they were very much on the back foot when when when some of us came out here beginning of last year a lot of people did come out here um things have definitely changed for the better can you tell me a bit more about this um Soviet mentality you were talking about um and how um that actually showed itself in the way they wanted to do things militarily and what you were telling them to do in terms of tactics and how how they let you know how they lead their soldiers what what did you have to advise on yeah I'm not I'm not going to go into too much detail as so what we got up to um I mean far it's confidential I don't want to get arrested by the people I'm trying to help kicked out of the country um yeah the way the way the Russians do things um you know I've got I'm not going to lie I've got a few notes here I've got to keep referring to those because I spent a long time preparing for this I want us to get some some good messages across I'll tell you about my experience with Russian troops profound weakness at all levels is is is probably a good statement um I think yeah the the the their weaknesses Russian weaknesses are one one of the Ukrainian greatest assets um compared to Nato forces absolute rubbish so a message to our friends in the Baltic states and Poland and it's not me being KN here they really don't have anything to worry about with any Russian marching their way soon and they are in a shocking State what they have done very well of course is prepare defensive um positions um possibly using some Force labor I've heard rumors of that in some areas extensive fortifications we've heard all about the layers of Mine Fields dragons tee the ditches the burms etc etc and the strongholds um but that's pretty much it um the Russian air sorry Air Force um is is very poorly trained um it's micromanaged it always has been um it's um it's it's not being as as um as active as much as people might think um and you know they're very scar you know the ukrainians have got a lot of great equipment Don by the west and they're going to get a lot more so when the gripens arrived when the fighting fans arrive you any any Russian Pilots are stupid enough or brave enough to get too close to the front I think you're going to see the wrong end of some very Advanced a missiles like the Fantastic American Am ram that's Advanced m r missile and maybe even the British European mutal missile yeah they're going to see those coming their way by 8:04 the way see coming their way but um yeah it's going to be um it's going to be bit oneid I'm talking about the their a 8:10 forces the vdv the so-called Elite troops to put it mildly they're not they're not leaked by any stretch of 8:17 imagination compared to the British parachute regiment par regim the British Army and they're just it's just a world 8:24 apart they really are um they're unprofessional Russian troops ply trained poorly equipped their equipment 8:31 is falling apart a lot more now than it was they've got woeful leadership or all else they don't have the Fantastic 8:36 senior in series and Senior and series that we have in the British army um the level of leadership officer the officer 8:43 core is is dis Rish they don't care about the man like we used to care certainly I used to care all the guys only care about arm they're drunk and 8:50 disorderly at the best of times um and um yeah their morale is lower than shark 8:56 shark exent so um so yeah um and you must be watching sorry to 9:01 interrupt you must be watching constantly um the way the war is developing the way it's being fought can 9:07 you tell us a bit about what tactics you think are proving the most successful for the ukrainians I think the 9:12 ukrainians are um I mean one thing sticks out um I mean people there's a lot you know there's been a lot of chat 9:18 recently about people sort of thinking that they're not doing doing enough but what what they've been doing for many 9:23 many months since shaping the battlefield I'm sure you've heard that that phras um you know they're very good at shaping the B 9:29 what that means is basically that they're setting the conditions to suit their operations there's a danger of course 9:35 that the longer you shape the battlefield the longer your enemy can prepare the ground that you want to take 9:41 but I think the Russians have probably done as much as they want to or can do and they're very much under pressure 9:46 from from Ukrainian artillery now so um so so what are the ukrainians doing now um what what are they doing very well 9:52 interdiction interdicted by long range fires so they're using guided munition s to to to trick the enemy depth to take 10:00 out the logistical nodes command functions gun lines whatever presents itself as a Target um I had a good 10:07 phrase I'm not I'm not doctrinally pure I'm not sure if I was ever doctrinally pure but I'm certainly bit a bit off the 10:12 um not very sharp on that now but I heard um the great Gerald betrus talking on on on on on another podcast a 10:19 fantastic cre electus by rough people uh he spoke about stretch starve and strike 10:25 um stretch is what I think we used to call fixing so fixing the enemy in place preventing him from maneuvering from for 10:32 rotating troops you know troops can only last for about 3 days before they get a little bit battle we weary Russian 10:39 troops being left in place for for weeks if not months so so doing that starving 10:44 and of course is classic attritional Warfare so of grinding them down at the front and at the back and um and and so 10:51 so striking like I said I'm not trally pure you probably need to get some of your very smart people described in your 10:57 in your podcast um so podcast front page to to polish up my rambling so just 11:02 interesting what you said earlier when you were praising the um the military leadership by the ukrainians and why are 11:08 they what are they doing right which the Russian leadership is doing wrong and why is there such a a a gap between the 11:15 way they do things well as I said one of the greatest strengths is the is the is the ukrainians the ukrainians is just 11:20 how bad the enemy is in a lot of cases um another fantastic fa of course is is they're bravery and they're smart um and 11:28 and the third great strength for ukrainians is is Western support they've had a lot of they've had a lot of advice 11:34 from from a lot of very brain people um long serving offices of course people are not serving Europe they're serving 11:39 in other countries as well serving for their home countries so they have been getting a lot of um lot of advice and 11:46 what have you seen about the way that training that they've they've had because obviously they we've have ukrainians in the UK being trained by 11:52 the British military what have you seen about the way they've changed and the way they've adapted that to the battlefield there's a bit of a split 11:58 here um there's the there's the guys that have had the Western training um so Justin Stenhouse brigaders Justin 12:04 Stenhouse in charge of the land por on operation interlex which was what 12:10 started orbital was the training from 2015 operation Orit was training from 2015 to the beginning of the main 12:16 Invasion that was replaced by operation interflex from July of last year I said 12:22 Justin Stenhouse obviously an exceptional officer he's got an exceptional team much as the British 12:27 officers in N series and and other R but people from lots of other countries put 12:32 together a fantastic package and people who benefited from that have really started to improve things over here un 12:39 fortunately there's a lot of there's a lot of professional jealousy you get that in every unit of course um people 12:44 have done one training course might bump against people who done another some people think that if you haven't had any 12:50 combat experience then you know forget about all that sort of stuff because the training starts here obviously wrong a 12:56 little bit disa pointed here but um it's definitely having an impact on things this this sort of thing doesn't take 13:03 yeah it doesn't take just a couple of days to soak in to to master maneuver Warfare takes takes a long long time you 13:10 know Britain and other other later countries um you know we've been preparing to fight we were prepared to 13:17 fight the Soviet Union and obviously Russia after that for just a few since just a few years after the second world 13:23 war um so whil we might not have been involved in in in conflicts as prolonged 13:28 as this and of this nature um and more people make that point um you know we 13:35 we've spent decades preparing to do what these guys are doing so to be able to pass that on to some of the ukrainians 13:41 and hopefully for them to filter it into their command structure very very important and of course um you know when 13:46 you talk about mastering maneuver Warfare another thing the ukrainians have had to contend with is the fact that you know the Weaponry they've 13:52 wanted has not always come or has never really come at the time they've wanted it or needed it so they've had to adapt 13:58 to that as well haven't they absolutely you know these guys and girls have been learning on the hoof you know and 14:04 learning a very difficult job on the hoof picking up skills as they go along they've stoed a lot of blood they spent 14:10 a lot of treasure there that hours but um yeah the these weapons as I've mentioned at the beginning that they're 14:15 not stupid people they're very very bright people in Ukraine um and and and weapons systems are made to be Soldier 14:22 proof so you know they got two things in their favor there um brickton said 14:27 thousands of as take that's the braver soldiers here stop 14:32 keep being overtaken obviously plac like America as well so that's something to be really proud of 14:38 and I am but these weapon systems are are easy to master and when you know 14:43 what you're mastering them fall you know it makes you sharp no one fall to sleep in lessons you know just onstead House 14:49 people are giving giving a JS I'm sure that and and I'm sure that happens all over the place um this is this is this 14:56 is not training for exercise this is the Real Deal there and they're mastering everything we give them very very 15:02 quickly indeed and they've had to be very inventive in the weapons they use them when they use them if they use them 15:08 can you give us a bit of an Insight of how they they've managed to manage that um how so can you how' you Me by that 15:13 sorry well they've had sort of and because things have been for example you know that they're having to fight in the 15:18 front line without Air Supremacy um they're having to deal with weapons arriving at certain times and some of 15:24 the weapons have been denoted we haven't actually seen on the battlefield yet how what have you seen in the way that they're are working out how to use what 15:31 they use when and how much yeah I mean they they're that's just again bright people bright people and and there's an 15:38 agency so yeah they adapt and overcome very very quickly um but you they're not locking together I mean improvised IEDs 15:46 have been have been made here but there's been such a flow of equipment low level equipment coming in here lot 15:52 of stuff's been testing here which is obviously sticks in the c a little bit but um but you know it's for their benefit ultimately um they have mastered 16:00 things very very rapidly and um yeah I I I haven't heard I mean you can always 16:05 ask for more stuff there's a few things I would like to talk about actually that I think need need to need to be worked 16:10 on here and there there's actually um I thought before we chattered I thought what what would I what would I really like to see here what what do I think 16:16 could really save some some Newan lives and help them Inn the battles so I like to talk about 16:23 those um so um breaching the breaching is um 16:29 yeah Hannah Malia who who's Us's a smoke spokesperson at the ministry of Defense she's also one of the ministry of 16:35 Defense subordinates um she said some time ago that small units were being used on on 16:41 multiple fronts to try and penetrate the enemy defense mind um that that's okay when you got 16:47 all the right equipment and in my humble opinion um but I think um you know when when you don't have some of the things 16:53 I'm going to talk about in a second um um in your inventory then you can get ground out really quickly sending small 16:59 groups I'm not going to say exactly how sending small groups and small breaching parties to clear Minefield defenses 17:06 which are easily identified and then and then reduced for one of a better word um by enemy indirect fires and drones 17:12 dropping ammunitions um you know you need to you need to send larger formations if you need if you got to 17:19 have the combat power to cut more deeply um and if you just send these small groups forward they get reduced and left 17:26 on the battlefield because you can't get com Medics forward and they get taking that as well in some cases although they 17:32 do they do still go forward right people um sending more teams that allow exactly 17:38 same access is is not good from out amongst other things um so I think there 17:43 are some changes that need to be made that um I think there need to be larger groups of people um which requires more 17:50 command and control so great greater coordinating instuctions maybe than we're seeing in some cases there's two 17:56 things in particular that I think are really needed here now I mentioned um 18:01 this to in in in a message to one of the people that has appeared on your podcast before mention name but um but um um 18:08 there's something called a python so it's a Minefield breaching Minefield breaching explosive Co you replace 18:14 something called giant Viper when I was in actually used but what py is it's a it's a thick hose with a with a with an 18:22 unon sensitive um highgrade explosive in it it fires out to about 230 M when it 18:28 drops down to the ground it detonates clearly Minefield up a path and a Minefield 7 m or wide and just over 200 18:35 M long you can use these and tand them so you have 400 met L now I wrote to um 18:41 you know I was arrogant enough to drop a line to Ben w a few months ago and got a got got an email back or a lesser back 18:47 in the PDF format tach email um it a little bit awfully a I expecting to get 18:52 the full detail of course but um there was some talking there about about um 18:57 equipment to enable maneuver on the battlefield um and M detector so I they 19:02 went some Valance or something which is basically glorified metal detector um we 19:07 need to be sending things that are in our inventory that will really enable these guys girls to get through these 19:13 mindfields so the python system and the Americans have sent some stuff but I don't know I haven't heard of last 19:20 numbers these things will clear Lanes through mine field and you can actually drop them onto trench lines as well and 19:26 it's for real shock and all you can take out old defensive L one go but clearing a mindfield in one go like that they 19:33 will save countless lives okay countless lives they will save time and they will 19:39 reach objectives far faster than just prodding forward small breaching parties which they get destroyed very very 19:45 quickly so there's that pythons need to come out here explosive mindfield breaching and the other thing that I 19:51 think we should see out here and I haven't heard of it being used I smoke generators so there's a fantastic piece 19:57 of Kit called an m 56 coyote um I've been speaking to a guy called Mr Damon 20:02 who's in charge of um charge of company in America called AM General that make 20:07 um pves um so it's a massive job um trying to find out if there's any surplus m56 ceny systems that maybe 20:16 people I know here can ask for um these things um these things am I think 20:21 there's been a production run about 250 260 these things it's a smoke jator that 20:27 goes on the back of humy an adapted huming vehicle the smoke generator itself has put together by robotic 20:34 Systems Technology or technology systems company I think another but one of these 20:39 vehicles will create well a massive amount of smoke so 90 minutes of cold smoke or or 30 20:47 minutes of Hot Smoke to completely obscure a breaching operation okay or to be used deception up somewhere deception 20:54 up somewhere else and again you'll save countless cre lives they can so goad 21:01 know you mentioned the python system you mentioned this smoke uh screen system as 21:06 well um how how much what quantities do we need uh does Ukraine need and at the 21:12 same time um why are these things not being provided so the think the 101st 21:18 Airborne Division um or the 82nd one two I think first I Pi me up because1 was 21:24 here the golf um I think they got something like six so a platoon of six 21:30 generators that six Vehicles is is used for divisional size assault now okay 21:36 that's an air that's an Airborne unit so you know they're not going to have so many as many units but you'd be looking 21:42 at maybe a dozen or two dozen would be the assets given to an entire division 21:48 an entire armor Division if there was a production run of 260 old Vehicles made 21:54 then I think surely the Americans and wherever else got them could spare Maybe does on the so to Shield these guys and 22:00 as they're breaching the minefields down south you will be able to you will be able to I mean 22:06 I one one of these vehicles would would produce enough smoke to 22:12 to completely cover Wembley Stadium in probably about 30 seconds 30 seconds to 22:19 a minute okay from the inside so when you raise these issues what kind of response do you get it seems like I'm 22:26 not I'm not don't get me wrong I'm not raising you know I'm I'm nothing here and back there you know I'm I'm not 22:32 raising these issues to it's very very common sense it just seems um there must be a reason why these things are being 22:37 held back no I hope they are here but as I said I haven't heard of anybody using these things the ukrainians um they 22:44 might not ask for them we should be forcing this stuff upon these upon these guys and girls um the you know the 22:50 ukrainians are not massive fans of using smoke shells for their from their artillery and Waters and I think that 22:56 might be because there's um in some cases a lack of confidence when it comes to uh when it comes to 23:02 offensive operations so they might not want to to to obscure their own view of their own troops and there might be you 23:10 control weaknesses in some places might might from2 they use why do you think there 23:16 might be a lack of confidence in in offensive operations because it's very very scary and you know you know you got 23:22 to lose a lot of people and Equipment it's a simple that you know nobody goes into it no goes over the top thinking 23:29 that it's going to be a walk in the park um you know I haven't had that you know 23:36 I haven't had to do that here I being I was protecting the country I wasn't I wasn't taking stuff back or helping to 23:41 protect the country when I came back I was I was I wasn't attacking enemy positions um it was very much a 23:47 defensive fight when I was over here in the first seven months my time you in Ukraine you know leaving the comfort of 23:54 your of your of a of a very well established Tren position by by the time they were leaving them um and going over 24:01 open grounds and trying to do to the enemy what they were trying to do to you completely kept different from fish it 24:08 takes incredibly strong leadership it takes a lot of practice and I imagine it takes um a great deal of very command 24:16 and if you're not confident fully confident about and I don't believe any commander in any battle has been completely confident about operational 24:22 like that as I said at the beginning you know you know you got to take casualties you got to see bit come up your beat Wall few vehicles and it's going to be 24:29 very very stressful so I think that's that's why when you said earlier um that 24:35 uh nobody had to fear Uh Russian forces because you you said they're no good that they're rubbish um they do have the 24:41 numbers though don't they um so they they do but they I can assure you sorry to but in that um um I was B that was 24:48 clearly a little bit flipp side but um there's a lot there's a lot to fear for the Russians and and you know people say 24:55 Ukraine is fighting on what they're not already fighting our war we're helping them to fight their War but but they're 25:01 definitely do a lot of good things for us um um a lot of good things for coming off the back of that you know they've 25:08 exposed Russian weaknesses um you know Russia's spent a lot of treasure and a 25:13 lot of blood unfortunely in some cases um um but um yeah they they've really 25:19 exposed the the weakness of the Russian military and we we knew things were pretty bad in Russia uh we knew that 25:24 corruption was absolutely rampant um we knew that that equipment was um was in a 25:31 pretty poor State it's in a desperately bad State now thanks to the Western sanctions and the 25:36 car so you say yeah I was going to say I was interesting what you were saying before about the quality also of the 25:43 leadership because um now that uh the defense minister shyu and gasimov 25:48 general gasimov are very much responsible for the way this war goes um and there's no General sovin in the 25:56 picture he's out and he's responsible for those very strong defensive lines which are widely regarded as the best 26:02 things the Russians have done in this war so far I mean what do you think we're going to see from the Russian side 26:07 now right I mean only only a fool Will predict the outcome of any of any any 26:12 battle or War I think um you know some but this is going to be a real test of their military leadership isn't it now 26:19 and they're on their own there's no there's no full guy as it were and there's no one and they're not widely 26:24 regarded as being particularly competent General gasimov they're awful they're awful commanders I mean shyu was I don't 26:31 think he's ever had a proper command position so he's ever actually commanded men certainly not in in an army I don't 26:36 think um these guys are they're they allar in uniform you know there I think 26:42 there's 37 private armies in Russia and about 25 of those are actually on the battlefield here here in Ukraine so 26:50 being a Commandos um you they have their own shyu certainly has a private Army um 26:57 something or the built for it's it's another thing you can put a receipt in for and it's another way of generating 27:02 some private income um they're not competent commanders they're VOD Coke 27:08 bullies in a lot of cases um and and and that's basically the only way they've ever had success is is is by is by is by 27:15 bullying people into into into doing things in good oldfashioned Soviet style 27:21 as I said I'm not I'm not going to predict the the outcome of the war but what I do think we'll see is when when the ukrainians do crack into these next 27:28 defensive lines um when the weather turns as well um I'll just wind it back a little bit the um when the weather 27:35 turns a lot of people in the west are saying oh you they've only got a month left or 45 days left now that might be a 27:42 tactic to try and G them along a bit or that might be trying them trying to uh uh lull the Russians into a for security 27:50 and then maybe there's a lot offensive coming off the back behind these behind Ukrainian the ukrainians aren't going to 27:56 slow down just start it starts to get wet when the rain when when the sun when the sun stops shining and it starts 28:03 getting a little bit colder when the rains come when the mud turns up and when the frosts arrive when it starts 28:08 snowing I think we'll see the Russians really start to to struggle U they're 28:13 struggling already of course they're under pressure day in day out every single nice from Ukraine it's on many 28:19 many areas but when the weather turns turns bad you know they're going to they're going to huddle around that 28:25 whatever they can find to burn if there anything left just like we saw last year they'll give themselves away as a result 28:31 of that and be destroyed um they'll probably turn to drink a little bit more to keep the cold away massive era doesn't help we all 28:38 know and um from a survival perspective I mean and um and um and I think when 28:44 when when all that happens I wouldn't be surprised if we see them pack up what vodka they've got left and push off 28:50 they'll either try and ex trate back through their own lines getting through the some chating L the security 28:56 troops or they'll tribe surrendering droves to the to to the ukrainians um if there are 29:02 um if there are any Russians going to be watching this you speaking English English then um then enter the words I 29:08 want to live into any search engine remembering to turn on Western VPN ver score and you get instructions how to 29:14 surrender to ukrainians I understand that something about 45,000 Russians but you looked at these websites and tried 29:21 to tried to make contact in some way certainly looked so yeah I think when 29:26 the weather bad I think things will actually start to improve for Ukraine the vehicles that we've been 29:32 given them in particular designed to work in in northern European and Arctic conditions especially Scandinavian stuff 29:40 the tracks are wider than you get on bmds bmps well BMP is an infant Fighting 29:45 Vehicle the Russians have been using for decades um the bmd is is an Airborne 29:51 version of that Waf for thin flights and frontal armor actually made of aluminium so they they burn quite nice when they 29:57 do go up um but these things got very very small tracks They will sink into 30:03 the stuff that we've been given them giving them so um Bradley some of the Armed Vehicles we've been giving them 30:10 the Fantastic cv90 from from Sweden these all wide tracks they'll just Race Across the as long as they're not too 30:16 heavily L they'll Race Across the the mud and the and and and the they far better St rush so um so yeah I'm looking 30:24 forward to the weather turning bad hey it's an interesting perspective and I'm really glad you shared that with us um 30:31 the Kremlin has said the Ukraine that Ukraine has targeted a Russian Patrol ship in the latest news as we're talking 30:36 now with five Naval drones in the Black Sea and it follows that Storm Shadow missile attack um on the Russian 30:43 submarine and Landing ship in Sebastapol um do you get the sense you know I know 30:48 you said you're looking forward to Winter uh do you get a sense already that the momentum is with Ukraine yes I 30:55 think um I I think it is I mean they the Russians are yeah they're on 31:02 the back foot you know their morale as I said is lower than shark expent um and 31:07 um and you know they're not going to stick around for the little man in Moscow when when it when the pressure 31:12 really builds up and and I don't think that the pressure is really on in a lot of places no one likes the idea of being 31:18 out flanked when the when ukrainians do do penetrate more deeply all these units off to the site they'll start getting 31:24 very very twitching deep um and um we'll see we'll see I think we're going to see a bit of a route assuming when that 31:30 happens so fascinating I mean can we just talk a little bit about about drones and we've seen the repeated use 31:37 of drones on both sides for either repeater attacks or dramatic one-offs 31:43 that have a quite an effect I mean how much of a difference do you think the use of drones is having in this War I 31:50 think enough's been said about drones to be honest with you s i don't don't stand rude there but I mean I I was never 31:56 drones who got a Fant a great role to play here um from an observation point of view um 32:02 see um and and obviously being adapted by these very clever boys and girls to drop stuff um and the Russians 32:08 unfortunately doing the same thing they're vital obviously if you want to see over a hill see beyond line of sight 32:14 um very good at blowing stuff up what I don't really like is seeing and you know 32:20 that that you need them to to to to Target um to Target to Target enemy 32:25 positions when you're using longrange fires of course um I think there's an over Reliance on them when it comes to 32:31 short range in direct Fire Control um you know what we need to see I think more is is training I'm sure they've 32:37 probably done this back in the UK and other countries but they probably do it here as well but people don't really do 32:43 anything unless there a drone and I get that I get that but um but if you're if 32:48 you're attacking a position or if you're defending fan troops we haven't seen a great deal of that here from the 32:53 Russians for a long time um then I don't see can be good oldfashioned forward observation officer M fire controlling 33:01 um way of directing artillery using direct Lin of sight optical devices also known as 33:06 binoculus using Direction finding equipment also as a compass um and if 33:12 you use those that I think they'll be able to bring fires down a lot more effectively when when they're trying to get through certain positions that they 33:18 can see um using a drone what generally happens is they'll give a quite a long 33:24 grid reference and if the rounds don't hit they'll give long Rd reference and to try and adjust for it 33:31 um it used to be taught down south um um how to how to how to add drop yeah and 33:38 bring rounds onto onto onto a l Target I think there's a I think not 33:44 enough of that happens out and that would save a lot of a lot of the the D artillery around some the normal hyp 33:50 spoks rounds which are ridiculously expensive now but that's another subject can we just on another subject talk 33:56 about the partisan activity and their ability to disrupt and Destroy Russia's supply lines their ammunition storage 34:02 military facilities what do you think uh what do you think how big is their role do you think in the counter offensive 34:08 partisans um I can't really comment on partisans never worked with them um I know sort of D stuff but um Ukrainian 34:16 people but um but I think just as with the majority of French Resistance fighters in the second world war and um 34:23 and the majority of resistant fighters from other countries back then um yeah 34:29 the these these these people are fighting for the most right causes yeah freedom and occupied territories um 34:36 incredibly Brave incredibly dangerous work um there's a risk of being being 34:41 betrayed by your own people or by sympathize in these occupi territories and the tricky thing is I 34:47 think the thing is to know when to show your hand um at the beginning of August last year I sent a couple of messages to 34:54 couple people to here about what I do if I if I was General here and that would be that was actually so this is on I 35:00 said the beginning of August last year to go from just south of Zap Veria down to Milito the closest point on us to the 35:07 South which is only about 70 odd kmers away because there's actually a big lake that comes in Municipal sits the top of 35:13 that um from the coast and that would sever the land bridge um you don't even 35:18 have to go all the way there in order to sever the landridge because as long as you push your mobile artillery forward 35:24 deep Strike weapons when they arrive what they are now then you can actually you can actually cut off Supply 35:32 CS with the the partisans the other reason why I thought it would be a good idea to go that straight down there I 35:38 mean as as lots of people did I'm sure was the the axis would have gone straight through the largest area past 35:45 that activity in all of the occupied territories um these people obviously 35:51 have to have to be very careful when they when they show their hands as I said but when when trendly forces are advancing on an ACD approaching your 35:57 area that's when they would be very very useful you know they could they could they could create havoc and Mayhem in 36:02 rear Echelon areas and Rush behind rushan mines they could stop um they could blow up trucks and Railway 36:09 movements if there are any close by they could prevent reinforcements coming up could so disc called and fear wherever 36:16 they were would have a massive impact I think that's what we will see as the ukrainians get a little bit closer down 36:22 that ACC there was there was a an interview this week that went out um with the head of the army General 36:28 cpatrick Sanders and um in that interview he was saying that being able to adapt in Warfare is absolutely key 36:35 and that that winning the war it's it's kind of like a darwinian kind of situation where the quickest to adapt 36:42 will survive um in that light um what do 36:47 you how do you interpret the way this war might develop because it does look like the ukrainians have been the quickest to adapt yeah I mean full stop 36:54 yeah the Russians it's almost like they can't can't learn um and and that's because they so there's something called 37:02 Mission command Okay Mission command is is is vital especially when you're 37:07 during during operations there isn't any in the Russian on the Russian side of things very very stuck in their 37:14 mindset they micromanage so I mentioned before with the Russian Air Force that you know they had they always used to 37:20 have these set piece exercises with the big Tre fromy the commodor whatever they 37:25 call them the ter up and um and and everything would look good and there might be a couple of mistakes but generally everything would be stage 37:31 managed to show that they are fantastic figh Pilots of all rest it's kind of 37:37 like that with the military with with the Army as well um the micr marriage that the the horizons that so the left 37:44 and right of Arc so left and right of Arc um um that that are given to 37:49 commanders for maneuver are are pretty restricted it's not like you have in the 37:57 west and and here to to an extent um where people are encouraged to think 38:02 outside of the box okay what is Mission command it's this it's bandwidth it's 38:08 it's allowing people to make the right decisions at the right time according to the situations they're facing there and 38:14 then again some of your some of your people living in around R will probably want to polish this up but um but it's 38:21 it's flexibility it's lateral thinking it's um it's an approach to command and control that allows be subordinates to 38:28 make decisions that will will achieve their own missions but also maybe meet the objectives of higher commanders 38:34 should situations arise you don't get that and the Russians they just do not do anything they will reach an objective 38:41 even at the beginning of the war so we saw tanks coming forward or infantry coming forward um to heading towards 38:47 mive and then reaching their objectives and even though they'll say a bridge or piece of high ground to their front was 38:53 vital for their timate mission uh aim to their mission they they wouldn't go for it because they've been told to do one 39:00 thing and if once they' had done that they go into all round events or whatever and sit type vat maybe but um 39:07 but um the you the they have a greater understanding of it here in Ukraine as I said there's some fantastic commanders 39:13 here and that's some very brave and energetic soldiers um so that yeah that they're 39:20 far better at adapting to situ situations on the ground look at what happened in in KH when the Russians 39:26 collapsed and and they were just they weren't routed so much I mean obviously they were chased by the ukrainians and 39:32 they they they collap because of Ukrainian pressure but ukrainians saw what was happening and they went for it 39:38 okay they didn't go all right well that's fine yeah we've done all right here let's let's stop and consolidate 39:43 ouros they went through it as much as they could and Chase the Russians all the way back to to to near the front we 39:49 see now so um so yeah they hell of a lot more flexible I'm just interested to know um you obviously committed to being 39:56 being in Ukraine um what are your hopes for the future I'm I'm committed not so much to being in Ukraine I'm I'm 40:01 committed to to seeing the right thing done for the right people um you know we 40:07 we have a sense of um we have a moral code I think in the UK and in many countries West not everybody 40:13 unfortunately but um we like to set the bar quite High we've got a sense of 40:18 Integrity um that I think is certainly lacking a lot of places like Russia um 40:24 I'm not committed so much to to being in Ukraine I'm committed to to to doing as much as I can to help me cheat success 40:31 to went on the battlefield last year to to help their economy and Recovery get 40:37 started here now and this year and that's what I'm that's what I'm putting my energies 40:43 towards Simon woodis it's been great speaking to you thank you so much for your time you've been watching Frontline 40:49 for times radio with M K Cho my thanks to today's producer Lou Sykes and to you for watching if you'd like to support us 40:55 you can subscribe now or listen to times radio for the latest news and in-depth analysis or go to the times.co.uk for 41:03 now though thanks for watching love you Ken 33:07 NOW PLAYING