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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... JUNE 29TH 2024 The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse Post mortem related to Biden and the debate with Trump PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvG61DU7oU Peter Burgess COMMENTARY I have liked Robert Reich since the time when he became Secretary of Labor in the Clinton Administration. I tend to agree with most of his social, economic amd political views! My aim at the present time is to try to pull together all the many threads of socio-economic activity that relate to 'good' progress to promote them, and to highlight the bad threads that need to be constrained. My analysis is informed by 60+ years of practical analysis that I have worked on in many fields in many parts of the world ... and especially I want to address the problem that a lot of 'good' things are connected technically to a lot of 'bad' that is difficult to avoid. This problem was not so big when the world's population was under 2 billion, but now the population is 4 times this at around 8 billion. Environmental stress is now a much bigger issue than it was when I was young. Almost all the datapoints that I learned as a student 60+ years ago have changed significantly ... but not enough of the common and essential understanding that we all need has changed to match! Without essential change ... things will go badly! Peter Burgess
What happened at the debate? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich Premiered Jun 29, 2024 683K subscribers ... 84,555 views ... 5.6K likes The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse Between the Supreme Court's naked power grab and the debate debacle, it's honestly been a rough week. Heather Lofthouse of @imcivicaction and I break it all down in this week's Coffee Klatch. Please pour yourself a cup of coffee (or something stronger) and join us. The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Transcript 0:00 it is the Saturday coffee clutch and welcome back we we've been here since Thursday night Heather loft house and I when we were we were we were kind of uh we were talking about the debate we were here right we were watching it and people were watching along but there more there's more news since then and we have to talk about it and we want to uh you to join us uh and uh well it it's related to the debate because the Supreme Court has made some of its rulings uh controversial Alo and Thomas did not did not decide to uh weigh out those decisions I mean Alo and Thomas uh it's as if they don't have any conflicts of interest at all but let me get let me not get ahead of myself yeah Heather well our topics for today as you implied scotus these out ofc control rulings and then obviously what's happening with the presidential election how was the debate you know there was a 1:00 rally and and Raleigh a Raleigh and rally yeah that was good energy so let's talk about it all can we start with the Chevron Defence well this is a long way from the debate Chevron Defence but not that long uh because the Supreme Court decided that the so-called Chevron Defence Doctrine which had been uh you know the president it had been the law of the land the Sue Court had decided uh more than 40 years ago that uh that that the courts were obligated to follow the decisions that agencies made in how they interpreted federal law now let me that sounds a little bit complicated but it's not uh starting in 1914 with the Federal Trade Commission and then through the 1930s with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Food and Drug Administration and all sorts of other uh sort of alphabet soup agencies that were created by Franklin D Roosevelt uh the federal government uh routinely took laws and applied them 2:05 to various situations and in so doing decided through regulations uh that this and gave it gave guidance to businesses this is the way we at the Securities and Exchange Commission for example are going to interpret this very broad Securities Law now that was fine and that was the way things were and that was uh the way when I argued cases before The Supreme Court and when I was in the Federal Trade Commission uh everybody assumed there would be no question about this yeah these are all your old stomping grounds well the the Supreme Court has said no there is not going to be any assumption that agency interpretations of the law are legal now what does that do immediately it puts more responsibility on Congress to pass laws that are more complicated than anticipate everything that could happen which is ridiculous Congress can't do that uh but it also gives the 3:02 White House whoever is the president more authority over what the Federal Trade Commission the security and change commission the National Labor Relations Board any of these agencies do dayt day and that's the connection between all of this and what happened in the debate uh and who is our next president now I thought we were supposed to have three branches it feels like we have a main branch which is the Supreme Court these days uh unfortunately yes the Supreme Court has taken on itself much more activism I mean this was these are conservatives so-called who are dominating the court who have said in the past uh look that conservatism means we have a very limited view of how the court should intrude upon the other branches no longer this is the most activist right-wing Court in American history uh since maybe 193 6 37 but even then uh it was not nearly as activist as 4:04 this court and this is I mean I would say it's going to affect and have con consequences not just implications for the environment health care how consumers operate average Americans right all I mean this means more litigation it means more questioning of what agencies have done in the past um it also even affects uh Trump's trial if he ever has a trial on trying to overtake the 2020 election because one other thing the court did is it changed the interpretation of the obstruction of justice Clause right that was in but passed after Enron uh remember the Enron disaster uh and that obstruction of justice the the court said and these were not these were this is another 63 but it wasn't the same 63 it was interesting Jackson was with the majority and and Barrett was with the 5:02 the Liberals on this one uh said that in order to be an obstruction of justice it's got to be something that is tangible some real tangible obstruction well um that doesn't throw out every by any means all of the cases against all of the uh writers on January 6th uh it doesn't really undermine too much of the case against Trump in terms of the Insurrection uh but it does throw a little bit of sound in the wheels it makes it a little bit more difficult right so we haven't heard about immunity allegedly we'll hear next week we shall see I think the immunity decision is probably going to come down Monday and my prediction I hope I'm not wrong I hope I'm wrong right I hope you're wrong too my production my prediction is that the court is going to say that if it's in inside official duties of the president that is immune from prosecution if it's not then it's not immune but we don't know whether this because we don't have the facts of 6:05 what happened so we're going to go back to the district court or maybe the court of appeals and ask them to find out whether the AL alleged wrongs uh in terms of Trump's trying to overturn the election were within His official duties now obviously they weren't within official duties no I mean the president's presidents can possibly have an official duty to overturn an election uh but it's just going to delay even more is there Latin for delay for stall there's got to be some legal term yeah and again Alo and Thomas have not recused themselves nope uh and uh this is a scandal I mean you know when you think of the conflicts of interest they have they have this this this ethics code which oh please yes it's exactly it's oh please this ethics code means nothing I know this conservative block blo see I mean it's too well that too I 7:03 mean it's really scary to watch this it's scary to watch it and you saw on Thursday night Trump take you know fabulous people who I've appointed or whatever he said to the Supreme Court well this is where it all gets um connected to what happened Thursday night and ALS and the election and the Panic that is gripping a lot of Democrats right now uh because you and I were right here we were watching it uh in a watch along with many of you um by the way that was stressful I felt so I mean just watching it h it wasn't easy right I felt it I felt angry and depressed by it I know I know and saddened well I mean Trump was not a surprise his lie his his non-stop lies there was not a single sentence that was not an outright lie uh I went over the over the transcript and it was extraordinary Heather I mean everything he said was 180 degrees wrong and not in response to what he was asked ever no he 8:05 just he he made up what he wanted to talk about and he said it and he said it over and over in in 30 different ways uh and U you know accused accused Biden of lying and accused Biden of being a crook I mean right and killing babies and and and I mean it was it was it was classic trp but it was worse than the classic trump it was Trump squared Trump cubed uh but the but what was just so depressing uh is what everybody saw that Biden 12 minutes in uh he answers a question and he tried all the way through to answer questions as well as he could and he he did offer a lot of data he was well prepared with data and policies as if data and policies are what people pay attention to uh you know Roger alses years ago who founded was 9:00 one who's the first head of Fox News uh came up with this theory that if you have two people on a debate stage politicians and one of them answers every question perfectly and the other one falls into the orchestra pit uh who are people going to remember the arra yeah well in this case Trump didn't fall into the oestra B he lied people some people obviously are going to believe his lies but uh the real tragedy of the night was that Biden 12 minutes in and onward uh could not finish sentences he couldn't be understood um that answered he he answered something about the debt I don't have it in front of me but he uh he got off track and it was clear he was off track and Medicare right do you remember it was Medicare he but it was painful because he hesitated he did exactly what you fear uh he seemed overwhelmed he he just seemed Beyond his capacities but then he was better at the 10:03 rally yesterday Raleigh the Raleigh rally well he was but you know he had a he had a teleprompter and a crowd yep and when you have when you are a politician or anybody and you have you know thousands of people cheering you on and you have a teleprompter telling you exactly what to say that's different than being in a debate on a stage where you have nobody cheering you on and a bully and you have a bully telling you completely the opposite of what's true and trying to get you riled up and you don't have a telepromter and you don't have any guidance and you have your memory but your memory may not be 100% I know I know and he's better when he's kind of I mean when he's better when he's good off the cuff I know I'm not a young man State the obvious well I know I don't walk as easy as I used to I don't speak as smoothly as I used to I don't debate debate as well as I used to but I know what I do know I know how to 11:05 tell the truth I know I know I know right from wrong and I know how to do this job I know how to get things done I know like millions of Americans know when you get down you get back up well look I I wanted we went in you and I talked about this we wanted to see Biden State of the Union Biden right you know somebody who who is who has energy and you know enthusiasm and it really is is going at it and looking forward I mean I feel like it's you know looking over a horizon not just being reactive and kind of stunned but from the moment Biden came onto the stage he came onto the stage I hate to say this because I'm 12:00 78 years old right he came on the stage like a halting old man uh and Trump came on the stage like a bully did you see him kind of rolling yeah sa sauntering but it's there was much be I mean it's worse than soldering it's kind of yeah like a bulldog uh and I mean that was that stage I know those images St B was stiff Biden got better I think so too uh he but again he had total command over facts over data which is great you want that in a president there's no total command a good command um but I was interested Heather uh and we didn't have a chance to talk about this on Thursday night the reaction among Democrats and not only official Democrats but pundits and uh just the man on the street woman on the street uh after the debate and yesterday I think there is a kind of a panic in the Democratic party right now oh for sure but so can we please do you mind 13:04 can we delve in I want to know what what okay so in policy School you learn one option let present Trends continue right so we could stay on this course hope that Biden's going to you know recover from the stumble other people have had incumbents have had a terrible first debate right back in the ring Obama for example and other people as well presidents so let president T continue is one option but is that where are you a betting man is that what we should do what do we think I mean what are the options really well it's interesting sometimes I look at um you know markets there's there's something called the presidential Futures Market have you ever looked at that I don't think I have yeah it is actually a kind of a betting Market but it's big enough so that it reflects the actual bets of people who you know hundreds of thousands of people who actually make bets on the presidential Futures Market who's going to be the president and after after the 14:02 Thursday night debate uh the the likelihood in the presidential future Mark uh that Joe Biden would the be the Democratic nominee dropped 28% oh Bob um but you're right uh the the the easiest thing in politics or any place else in life when you confront the possibility of decision is not make a decision just let like the Supreme Court loves that motive motive opting yeah like not recuse yourself just let the present Trend continue but the problem is that the present trend is not good for Joe Biden um you know I'm not a poll Watcher I don't believe in polls this early but I do believe that if you take the aggregate of all the polls you get some guidance and going into the debate Thursday both Biden and Trump were tied for very low support but about tied for 15:02 support uh the polls coming out uh are not nearly as favorable and we don't know because it's going to take time for the public to really register uh but if the present Trend continues uh and Trump continues to do slightly better than Biden which was the trend not even but slightly better uh particularly in the swing States we're talking about five states where swing voters in those five states have extraordinary power because of the Electoral College because the Electoral College remember I mean Trump lost every election he's been in he lost to Hillary Clinton big time uh he lost to Joe Biden even bigger I wish that had come up on Thursday um well we're talking about the popular vote I know but the Electoral College uh is is is kind of kind of biased toward uh the 16:02 rural States and big uh older States states that uh are vast well have become vast empty places you know Wyoming has what 49 500,000 people yeah uh how many people in California 30 million yeah at least isn't it uh so the Electoral College is is completely outed uh but we've got that's the system we we have and if that's the system we have and we go according to that system and nothing changes in between now and four and a half months from now uh Donald Trump becomes president but that's it we're 130 plus days out what can happen I mean okay so say hypothetically Biden steps down now that would take what he would have to decide everyone around him would have to encourage it well we're seven less than seven to the Democratic Convention y so 17:02 we have never been here before uh some Democrats are talking about what it would take to get Biden to step down he if he doesn't voluntarily step down forget it I mean theoretically it's possible that there are enough delegates who might vote for somebody else on the first round in order to throw it to a second round in the convention and maybe open it up but it that sounds very unlikely no Biden would have to have to agree that he's no longer the candidate but then what I mean first of all how do you ever get Biden to that point I mean Joe Biden would have to say honey I to say honey and all the aids would have to say and and Obama would have to weigh in and Bill Clinton would have to weigh in and everybody who it's an intervention every everybody who Biden trusts and 18:01 then you'd have to hear it you and you'd have to stick with it you don't you know I've I've known four presidents in my life um the degree to which they are cushioned against any negative feedback the degree to which they have convinced themselves that they are really doing well and should stay the course is huge I think they need that you need that army though right to be someone in power it's not just Presidents too right it's powerful Senators there are a lot of people that's right A lot of people who should have stepped down uh and don't step down uh well the point of the matter is it's going to be very difficult to convince Joe Biden at this late date even though today and yesterday a lot of Democrats are talking about that's what's has to happen but even if he said yes I'm stepping down then what do you get uh where do you go right uh I hate to put you on the spot yes who would step up I mean in a contested convention who are we talking 19:00 Whitmer Gretchen Whitmer is is on everybody's list but the public doesn't really know her uh and with four months to go before the election uh how do you how do you introduce somebody to the public there is not a PR social media firm that you could trust to do there's there's also uh joh John Shapiro Pennsylvania Governor uh the other people on my list would be Wes Moore from Maryland uh obviously kamla Harris uh obviously Gavin Newsome from California but who on that list is really somebody who would be recognizable to the public would the public would be willing to entrust and trust is the big word here right in trust the future of their families uh their their their businesses their financial future their security their children who are you going to trust and needs to be young people are willing to trust Gen X and Millennial it 20:03 needs to be persuadables or Independents people on the cusp needs to be people who voted for Biden and now lack faith in him and the system needs to be people who are regrettably planning to vote for Trump I mean all these people would have to swing in the direction of this new person we know nothing about and you've pointed this out four months for Trump and his cronies to take down someone who doesn't have a reputation is a lot of time and scary it's very scary uh and and Trump is brilliant at not only lying but telling people that you know that person over there is is awful is is a is a is the worst you know is a is a criminal is a I mean you know he did that on Thursday night uh he pointed at Biden he said he's a criminal he's a liar I mean what Trump does is Project his own features onto his opponents and 21:04 he'll do that with whoever is the Democrat so it's going to be incredibly difficult now between the debate and the poor Biden debate performance uh and over the next few weeks Biden I'm sure is going to be out there like he was in Raleigh at the rally in Raleigh uh show a different side of himself so showing that he's energetic uh that he has what it takes uh and maybe Heather that is enough to overcome what people remember from the debate the problem is that debate audience was huge that debate audience for most people uh is the only thing they will have to go on in terms of their memory and understanding of who these people are and the way we consume content and news is in tiny little Clips online and they are going like wildfire right so 22:03 we've got to get ahead of that and and Trump knows that he can get away with lies if he just says it over and over and over again this was the this was the way the fascists in in Nazi Germany I know you sent out that substack the other night I me I know I did I I'm sorry I was so I got home after the debate and I was in such a bad mood that I just said you know what can I I what can I do to cheer people people up quote Hitler I god well no I also quoted you remember the American OSS in analyzing Hitler but but there was something there was something serious behind it because I instead of focusing on Biden's poor performance I think it's also for us very important to focus on the danger that Trump poses he is worse than he was in 2016 he's out of his gourd yeah in a serious way I don't know whether he 23:00 intends it to be but he is there's no constraint he will say anything uh and this frankly you know worries me it's almost like he can't tell the truth I mean it's he's stuck on this lie tape it's also part of the demagogy and the reason I I quoted Hitler and some of the Nazis around Hitler is that uh it is so focused on scapegoating in dangerous ways he kept on in the debate talking about migrants and immigrants as rapists and murderers and out of the Looney bins and and this is so criminals wrong uh this is dangerous uh it is it is uh it is it's the kind of it's the kind of bullying uh that based on a lie I mean in in point of fact the rate of crime among migrants either who are documented or undocumented is lower than the rate of crime among people who are born here in the United States and fentel convictions 24:01 86% were US citizens and he was trying to say you know immigrants are all responsible for all of the opioid crisis and fentel not only fentel convictions but fentel trafficking yep uh it's it's mostly Americans were doing it U so he is trying to um vilify uh a group of people uh and he will put them he says in well not only in cages he will actually put them in concentration camps uh he will uh he will launch uh the the federal uh government I mean in terms of the the troops of the federal government the Army the against them inside under the Insurrection act what did not come up uh on Thursday night uh was the was Project 2025 I know which is the think tank the Heritage Foundation think tank for Trump uh in terms of planning what Trump is going to do and this document that we have printed out actually and have in a video that's coming out soon I mean it is terrifying and why didn't um 25:08 Dana and Jake as I'll call them ask about that I think Dana Bash and uh jig Tapper uh were they were like automatons uh they knew what they were going to ask they didn't follow up uh in terms of saying that was wrong or you know Mr Trump uh that really was a lie or we asked you that you just veered off why don't you answer the question it was I will repeat the question but just very in that pedantic kind of way yes pedantic uh I I thought they were awful actually but um we're stuck right now I mean one thing that I was so disillusioned about Thursday night was uh sort of where we go from here I mean everywhere we go and everything we've talked about today Heather is a is a 26:00 difficult clim for democracy for the rule of law for everything we care about whether we're talking about the Supreme Court or or the conventions or the presidential election um also for the spirits of so many Americans who are suffering as it is you know well I look I I am a half cup half full person as you know and I'm a cup half full of it and as we know I mean this is a very strong country we will get through this we got through Richard Nixon uh this was before you were born I thought I thought Nixon was the the end of of the country and I thought Vietnam was the end of the country and when the the assassination of of John F Kennedy and the assassination of Bobby Kennedy and the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr uh I thought you know this was this country was a suffering plastic Sur ccus um and uh it couldn't get worse so 27:04 my so you feel better because it has gotten worse no my my optimistic self says we will get through this and years from now we'll we'll look back and we'll say we're stronger because of it we learned a lot of lessons uh we learned that we can't for example let uh 30 40 50% of the country uh simply languish uh particular particularly uh people in rural America older America men uh white men who have no work to do uh that that things that we did that I was in administration that did that really took the jobs away that that globalized and financialized the economy uh we are paying the price for this it's not just Donald Trump it's it's something much deeper right and maybe we've learned that lesson now I don't know I hope we're closer to learning it well I think Joe Biden and his administration have 28:00 done a terrific job in terms of reversing some of the damage that was done by even Democratic administrations like I was involved in and none of that was discussed on Thursday of course not of course not labor you know he did try and get in statistics about things they just didn't land statistics Never Land I mean that one thing that Trump knows intuitively is that it's not about numbers it's not about policy you can make up anything you want and not be held accountable what's important is how you look how you act whether you feel an intensity and power and project that uh and that's just basic Communications right and non-verbal communication is so important in these debates it's demagogy 101 yeah and Trump knows it he knows it he always known it uh and he is the most dangerous person in America and may be the most dangerous person of the world uh but we have to go on with our 29:02 weekends and I know well if we're going to I hope I haven't depressed you have I I tried you haven't just everyone else in the world has well but I'm I'm glad to be parsing through it all with you and with every I was just about to say it is been it has been a pleasure to be partnering with you in this processing in this process um and also with all of you and thank you for taking the time thanking thank you for joining us uh whether you joined us Thursday night and we helped you through that agonizing process uh today uh thank you for joining us thank you for joining us in the future um please have a good weekend sleep well I don't know how you slept not great Thursday night last night I have not been sleeping terribly well I want you to sleep well sleeping is very important at least 8 hours all right wow and uh we'll see you next Saturday [Music]

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