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THE TRUMP SAGA MeidasTouch: Michael Cohen talks with Joe Conason NEW Book \| Mea Culpa ... Trump THEFT from His OWN Voters Exposed PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoSEl5dpRx8 Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
🚨 Trump THEFT from His OWN Voters Exposed in NEW Book \| Mea Culpa MeidasTouch 2.59M subscribers Jul 20, 2024 Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen Our guest today is Joe Conason. Joe is an American journalist, author, and political commentator known for his investigative reporting and liberal viewpoints. He has written for numerous publications, including The New York Observer and Salon.com, and is the editor-in-chief of The National Memo. Conason is also the author of several books, often focusing on American politics and corruption. His work is recognized for its incisive analysis and advocacy for transparency and accountability in government. Michael And Joe discuss his latest book, The Longest Con: How Grifters, Swindlers, and Frauds Hijacked American Conservatism. Get TWENTY PERCENT OFF YOUR FIRST ORDER RIGHT NOW at https://TommyJohn.com/cohen Subscribe to Michael's NEW Youtube Channel: @TheMichaelCohenShow Join us on Patreon: / politicalbeatdown Add the Mea Culpa podcast feed: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-c... Add the Political Beatdown podcast feed: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/polit... Visit https://meidastouch.com for more! Support the MeidasTouch Network: / meidastouch Add the MeidasTouch Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Buy MeidasTouch Merch: https://store.meidastouch.com Follow MeidasTouch on Twitter: / meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on Facebook: / meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on Instagram: / meidastouch Follow MeidasTouch on TikTok: / meidastouch Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen Transcript 0:00 Hey Joe and welcome to mayaula first time on look let me just let my listeners know Joe Conason is an absolute prolific prolific author and I don't know how many books have you written so far a dozen I've written no no I've written uh six books uh all right half a dozen half AZ so let me ask so let me ask you this question Joe what inspired you to write the longest con and how did the idea for the book first come to you cuz you know I actually have written two books actually both of them New York Times Best Sellers one and number six what inspired me was my ass was sitting in prison so let me ask you what inspired you to write this book I I had an easier road to this book than you had to yours um I although I too have had a couple of Times best sellers in the past of those six I had two um first I want to say what a a delight it is to be on with you uh you know we've listened to your podcast many many times we've even let 1:01 our kids listen to it because it's so enlightening and amusing despite the sometimes salty language uh I have two teen let me say let let me say you you're now not getting parent of the Year award but okay you know I I never expected that but they enjoyed it too anyway uh especially on car rides we've listened to many of them so it's it's a real pleasure to be with you and uh uh so this book uh as I explained in the introduction which people can find on my site the National memo.com I posted the introduction for free so that people can see what the book is about but I explained in the introduction uh few years ago my wife Elizabeth uh said to me I've just read an art an old article in the baffler magazine which is this funny leftwing sort of uh quarterly magazine by the historian Rick pearlstein I don't know if you've ever had Rick on the air he's a brilliant guy you should have him on sometime he's written a number of great books about Republic presidencies including uh one 2:02 called before the storm about Barry goldwater's campaign and presidency brilliant book anyway Rick wrote a piece in uh in the baffler a called The Long con and it was a written in 2012 it was about Mitt Romney's campaign and the just uh lies that Mitt Romney was telling about Barack Obama and uh but in the course of writing that piece Rick uh had subscri subcribe to a bunch of conservative Publications and what he found uh after doing that was that his email box was just crammed with all kinds of solicitations for fake stuff uh you know overpriced gold sales uh you know uh survivalist kits uh you know um every kind of solicitation for something phony uh that and endorsed by conservatives and he thought here is a really strange pattern he looked into it 3:01 and he wrote about this in this art about this experience in his article and I read it after Elizabeth showed it to me and I said you know what she's right there's a book in this there's there's a lot more to this because 12 years later or however many I guess 10 years later when I read it it had metastasized into something really gross that even conservatives honest conservatives were beginning to complain about in print they were you know like this is terrible there were all these people out there trying to fleece our own people uh so I thought this is a really interesting story and the more I looked into it I was aware of it a bit already but the more I looked into it the more I thought this is not something that started yesterday this is something that has a history and it is now so intertwined with uh what we call conservatism which I don't think is conservative anymore uh that it is they're almost identical as Rick observed in that article there is such a uh a a melding of the 4:03 conservative ideology and the conservative propaganda and these scams and cons and grifts that they're identical now they're one thing and of course with Trump now as the kind of boss of all conservatism everything on the right uh he's sort of the apotheosis of this he's a huge con man as you know better than most uh and so it was not only uh fascinating to see how these things had melded together these phenomena had meld it together into one thing but that it had now expressed itself in Donald Trump and his rise yep so which is interesting because my next question my followup is going to be can you elaborate on the main themes of the book and how they connect to the current political climate now 5:00 I I I I read through the book and I can tell you you know this longest con and especially your chapter 12 which specifically deals with Donald and I I want to bring up a couple of points that you bring up there but I really would love to get your um your take on how the book sort of discusses the political corruption um and how you see the themes reflected in the book written by written by you how is it reflected in today's political environment so uh you know what I try to show in the book is that this um environment of corruption and scamming and conning of people developed uh over a long period of time in different ways um because I think it's an interesting story uh so you know as you know I begin the book with a chapter called the role model about somebody who I think you 6:01 must have met Roy con uh was he around 6:04 was he still around when you were came 6:05 on but the answer the answer is no 6:08 however interestingly enough number one 6:11 I've had his first cousin on this 6:14 program twice I think I heard that I 6:17 heard one of those yeah yeah I've had 6:19 him on twice um I met Roy K when I was 6:23 14 15 years of age when I was working in 6:26 Brooklyn by the way we should say no 6:28 relation right I mean no he we don't 6:30 even spell this he's co n and I have the 6:33 e in it but um I had met him there 6:36 because he represented um a whole slew 6:39 of individuals who were members at this 6:42 club and I was there as a kid working um 6:45 and I had had an opportunity to meet him 6:49 he was a let's just say an interesting 6:52 guy 6:54 um I met him several times myself when I 6:56 was covering politics in Manhattan at 6:58 the Village Voice uh many years ago and 7:01 I had lunch with him even at 21 one time 7:04 with circumstances that are not really 7:07 pertinent here but uh I start the book 7:10 with him for a reason Michael which is 7:13 he uh represents kind of to me the 7:16 beginning of the degeneration of 7:18 conservatism the acceptance of a of a 7:22 crook like Roy K who was uh as you know 7:25 a mob lawyer never paid his taxes ran 7:28 all kinds of scam and taught Donald 7:31 Trump how to constantly lie and get away 7:34 with it and run his life with impunity 7:38 from the law from all kinds of morality 7:42 this was uh Donald's sort of moral role 7:45 model and it was not a good one so it 7:49 kind of begins then and he was accepted 7:51 in you know in in the highest Circles of 7:54 conservatism Bill Buckley you know he 7:56 was friends with uh Bill Sapphire from 7:58 the times he was accepted despite the 8:01 fact that they all knew what he was 8:03 really about and to me that represents 8:05 kind of a an inkling about what was to 8:08 come so I start the book with him a 8:10 chapter profiling him and and how he 8:13 came to be such an influence on Donald 8:15 Trump uh and on conservatism in general 8:19 and then you know there's a whole host 8:22 of different aspects of this that the 8:25 book covers the religious right you know 8:27 Jerry fwell how it developed from there 8:29 into the Prosperity Gospel which are 8:31 these crooked preachers who are on TV 8:34 you know fleecing people out of their 8:35 money who are uh the religious uh 8:39 supporters of of trump and trumpism they 8:41 were you know there you you I know you 8:43 know about this because you appear in 8:45 one chapter where I discussed some of 8:47 this uh back when Trump was first 8:51 thinking of running for president uh you 8:53 know Paula White uh Benny Hinn uh 8:56 Kenneth copelan these crooked uh rod 8:59 parsly these crooked Prosperity Gospel 9:01 preachers so that's one whole category 9:03 Ralph Reed has another one uh even 9:06 though he's not a pastor and then you 9:09 know I also cover the tea party which 9:11 Trump emerged out of really uh and Sarah 9:14 Palin who is a major grifter And 9:17 discussing how they fell out over the 9:19 grifting you know spoils in the tea 9:21 party with different committees fighting 9:23 over this uh and so there are many 9:27 aspects of it in this book and the way 9:29 it's reflected now is this is a lot of 9:31 it is now centralized around Trump you 9:33 know since the 2020 election uh 9:37 certainly he has 9:40 um insisted really that all the or at 9:44 least most of the grifting somehow uh be 9:47 channeled towards him you know after the 9:50 election uh they told the big lie and 9:53 the big lie became a profit Center for 9:56 them it they booked as I'm sure you know 10:00 upwards of $250 million uh into their 10:03 super pack save America by pretending 10:06 that it was going to be an election 10:07 defense fund was a huge a huge fraud and 10:10 con that they ran on millions of 10:12 Americans who you know in their naive 10:15 way I guess believed that the election 10:17 had been stolen somehow uh they were 10:19 heavily propagandized on that by Fox 10:22 News among others and as a result they 10:25 got out and and started sending money to 10:27 Trump which he insisted that they had to 10:29 do and he's kept on that they knew they 10:32 were going to do this even before the 10:34 election was over Jared Kushner began to 10:36 plan how to keep t- magic was which was 10:39 the fundraising arm of the uh Trump 10:41 Committee in operation after the 10:44 election because they knew they would 10:45 keep raising money and they succeeded 10:48 you know uh in an unprecedented way in 10:51 fleecing people out of a lot of money 10:53 after that but that's only that's only 10:56 one of many uh as you know uh scams that 10:59 that the Trump trump family Trump 11:01 himself and his associates have 11:04 run yeah well you know um the one the 11:07 one chapter I just want to sort of talk 11:10 to you about is chapter 12 which is 11:13 entitled the king of the conmen and you 11:17 of course refer to the king of the 11:19 conmen is it's Donald Trump that's what 11:21 the par that's what the entire chapter 11:23 is about the first question I really 11:25 wanted to ask you about that is you talk 11:28 about Roger Stone um and you know my 11:33 what I really want to know 11:35 is how did you go about in terms of the 11:39 investigative techniques for coming up 11:43 with the information that you did Roger 11:46 Stone did not start the campaign in fact 11:50 the interesting thing is in 11:53 2011 2011 2012 When Donald Trump first 11:58 decided that he was contemplating on 12:00 taking on Barack Obama um and ultimately 12:04 we bailed out and we bailed out for the 12:07 the claim that he was we had just signed 12:10 another season of The Apprentice and he 12:13 was going to pull down another 65 12:15 million for it he had just purchased the 12:18 Dural and he didn't want to leave that 12:20 to the kids and he had bought as well 12:23 the golf course in uh Scotland and one 12:26 in Ireland and there was just too much 12:28 Financial going on that he didn't want 12:30 to leave up to the kids because he 12:32 didn't have faith that they would be 12:34 able to pull it off so I 12:36 started this website called should 12:40 trump.com and all of a sudden it starts 12:42 getting a bunch of like really negative 12:45 attacks to it even though millions of 12:48 people started giving me their email 12:50 address and they yeah yeah Donald should 12:53 run Donald should run and again this is 12:56 before we knew what he was really all 12:57 about you know he was just 12:59 this we're going to get into that this 13:02 um businessman icon real estate you know 13:07 sort 13:08 of larger than life kind of guy yes the 13:11 imaginary uh protagonist of The 13:14 Apprentice yes ex exactly yeah Ro it was 13:18 turns out it was Roger Stone who was 13:20 attacking my website and then we 13:23 ultimately found out about it and Trump 13:26 then reached out to him and you know he 13:28 was like no you know uh this is a great 13:31 thing that Michael created and I I want 13:34 to be a part of it Roger Stone is a dick 13:37 I mean there's no other way to describe 13:38 him he's just a 13:40 extraordinary any by the way anybody 13:42 that puts Richard Nixon's face tattoed 13:45 to the middle of his back and people I'm 13:48 not joking this is legit he is a 13:50 full bust of Richard Nixon in between 13:54 his SC that the picture was published in 13:57 the New Yorker yeah anybody could see 13:58 that and it it is real I've seen it and 14:01 anybody that does that you 14:03 have I think Roger I will say I think 14:06 Roger is I've known Roger for many years 14:08 and I will say I think he's actually 14:10 mentally ill he accused me of he accused 14:13 me of plotting to assassinate him just 14:15 around the time that he blocked me on 14:16 Twitter uh several years ago uh but 14:19 before that I'd known him for many years 14:21 and I talked to him about Trump many 14:22 times uh during those years I did not 14:25 know that he was uh secretly attacking 14:28 uh that website back when uh Trump first 14:31 contemplated running for office but 14:33 Roger I've talked to and and I others 14:36 too has always I think or for a long 14:39 time believed that Trump was a a 14:41 plausible and viable political candidate 14:43 because of the apprentice and because he 14:47 believed you know I'm sure you've seen 14:49 the quote from Roger that the most 14:51 powerful force in politics is hate not 14:54 love and that Trump would be a great uh 14:57 vehicle to uh kind of take advantage of 15:01 that insight into the undersight of 15:03 American politics that Trump would be a 15:06 great vehicle for that you know I you 15:08 may know I I think Roger does not or did 15:11 not have great respect for Trump's 15:13 intelligence or Acumen or uh he he he 15:17 mocked him to me many many times 15:20 constantly can I jump in for one second 15:22 and just tell you something about R 15:23 about Roger Stone the reason why Roger 15:26 was so anxious to get involved 15:29 in Donald's campaign and to be involved 15:33 in this is twofold one he saw an angle 15:36 to make money on absolutely and Roger's 15:38 been sort of struggling because of that 15:41 whole dirty trickster um right no he has 15:45 know Persona he's a bit toxic yes yeah 15:48 and number two based upon that toxicity 15:52 no one wanted to be around him so it 15:54 wasn't like he had a multitude of 15:57 clients and so on this was his forray 16:01 back in so while Donald was using him 16:04 because he really wasn't paying him 16:06 anything while Donald was using him he 16:09 was using Donald as well it was a quid 16:11 pro quote no question I mean and you 16:14 know I would think at some point he 16:16 might have described himself as a friend 16:18 of Donald but I don't think I think it 16:19 was always very transactional you know I 16:22 I'll tell you a funny story about the 16:23 2015 campaign there came a point I was 16:26 still talking to him then and there came 16:28 a point during that C though there were 16:29 two funny things he did one was he uh he 16:33 tried to expose Corey lewandowski's 16:35 affair with hope Hicks and I don't know 16:39 why but that was a thing he wanted to 16:41 have out there guess who do you think is 16:43 the one that killed that story did you 16:45 do that yeah of course I did yeah so so 16:48 which is what pissed me off the most 16:49 about Hope Hicks when she testified uh 16:53 at the criminal trial of Donald Trump 16:55 and she was like well yeah nobody really 16:57 liked Michael really no one like me I 16:59 tell you you liked me a whole lot when 17:01 those baby blues were red from the 17:03 crying because you had slap the out 17:06 of Corey on Lexington Avenue or Third 17:09 Avenue and a photo got taken which 17:11 turned out to be a photo by the New York 17:14 Post all right at 10 11 o'clock at night 17:17 well I'm sure Roger May well have been 17:18 behind that because he was zealously 17:21 trying to expose their Affair and the 17:24 fact that Trump had I don't know get he 17:26 said he said to me Trump gave them an 17:28 apartment so on uh I feel fine you know 17:32 talking about that now because Roger has 17:34 behaved so badly towards me since then 17:37 but um the other thing is uh he was 17:41 trying to make money off of selling Maga 17:43 hats during the campaign he he and he 17:47 got into a scuffle with uh somebody else 17:49 I know a conservative over the cut of 17:52 the Maga hats that they were somehow you 17:54 know marketing so you're right he saw 17:56 this as a as an opportunity even for 17:58 like the pettiest thing like that to try 18:00 to uh boost himself up and make some 18:03 money but nevertheless I would also say 18:06 Roger was a person of some insight 18:08 because he he did I think early on see 18:11 that Trump and The Apprentice and the 18:13 way that The Apprentice had created this 18:16 character who I refer to in the book as 18:18 quote Trump unquote uh could be sold to 18:22 a big uh segment of the American public 18:26 including voters uh as a as a brilliant 18:29 businessman as all the things that he 18:30 really was not but that he had been made 18:34 to appear to be and to me that's that is 18:37 a a con you know that's a that's a 18:39 that's a fraud you know there was this 18:41 one paragraph that I pulled out that I 18:43 just wanted to sort of read um and I was 18:48 not just astounded at the um La that I 18:53 was just astounded by the extent of the 18:55 clarity to which you sort of captured 18:58 this whole thing the refurbishing of 19:01 Trump's reputation and the renewal of 19:04 his capacity to profit from the 19:06 stupidity of his admirers could only be 19:10 achieved through the miracle of reality 19:13 TV the mythologizing uh superpower of 19:16 the most powerful American medium only 19:19 those who fully understood how that 19:21 superpower worked and how it had 19:24 transformed the tarnished Trump into one 19:27 of the nation's most ad admired 19:29 celebrities were able to anticipate the 19:32 success of his presidential campaign and 19:35 the reason that that paragraph sort of 19:36 stood out to me is because I was 19:39 co-president of trump Productions and I 19:41 saw all along when I used to go on 19:44 whether it was CNN or fox or you know 19:47 any of the stations and I would say like 19:49 I said to Chris Cuomo on MSNBC keep 19:52 making fun of Donald keep making fun of 19:54 Mr Trump I said in another in another 68 19:59 months you're going to be calling him Mr 20:01 President and I'll never forget the 20:03 ribbing that I took for that comment but 20:06 then you you go on and you are like 20:09 among those who came to believe that his 20:11 television career Elevate every morning 20:13 with Tommy John's Second Skin underwear 20:16 because what you put in your pants can 20:18 make a break your day and the luxurious 20:20 support of Second Skin guarantees that 20:23 everything will go smoothly and we need 20:26 smooth so when you wear Tommy John 20:28 you're much more comfortable and when 20:30 you're more comfortable you can do 20:32 everything better Tommy John's stylish 20:36 and soft Second Skin underwear has 20:38 dozens of comfort Innovations like a 20:41 supportive Contour pouch and breathable 20:44 lightweight moisture wicking 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plus here's another part plus your 21:50 most valuable assets are always covered 21:53 with Tommy John's best pair you'll ever 21:55 wear or it's free guarantee so get 20% 21:59 off your first order right now at Tommy 22:02 john.com 22:04 Cohen save 20% on Second Skin at Tommy 22:08 john.com 22:10 Coen that's Tommy john.com 22:13 Cen see the site for details had been 22:16 crucial to Trump's rise was biographer 22:19 Maggie Haberman who reported on him 22:21 extensively for both the New York Times 22:24 and CNN before writing confidence man 22:26 the making of Donald Trump and the 22:28 breaking of of America her APLE title 22:30 2022 biography she once described him 22:34 with pithy contens as a former real 22:37 estate executive who ran a relatively 22:39 small firm who constantly was trying to 22:41 make himself look much bigger so people 22:44 didn't see in various ways how small he 22:46 was now I know Maggie for over two plus 22:49 decades in fact uh I was um assistive in 22:53 helping her with her in incredible book 22:56 Incredible Book confidence man book 22:59 it really I have to say I have problems 23:01 with her sometimes but it is I've known 23:03 her a long time too and it is a really 23:05 good book uh great great book and she's 23:07 an amazing uh amazing journalist and I 23:10 got to tell you you know to to be to be 23:13 very transparent here you know um I was 23:16 the one that rebr Maggie into the fold 23:20 because Donald hated her but at the same 23:23 time he loved her he wanted her 23:26 desperately desperately to respect him 23:30 because you know look she comes from 23:32 generational you know journalism I was 23:34 going to say she's journalistic royalty 23:36 her dad is a friend of mine and uh you 23:38 know and her husband uh was the son of a 23:41 very uh prominent New Yorker Von Gregor 23:44 and her husband Dar worked for me at the 23:46 New York Observer back in the day uh 23:48 before he and Maggie got married so I I 23:51 know them a long time and and well and 23:54 you know I'll tell you he only wanted 23:57 her resp respect he only wanted her to 24:01 write these wonderful puff pieces about 24:04 him and that's just not Maggie and the 24:06 New York this was the New York that he 24:08 aspired to be part of is where where 24:11 they were exactly right and and so was 24:14 sitting in his office one day and 24:17 Maggie's name comes up and he sees that 24:20 I'm like yeah so he's like you know her 24:25 I said at that point in time yeah about 24:28 15 years I know her so he goes how do 24:31 you know everyone I said I've known her 24:33 forever so he 24:35 goes have her come in tomorrow have her 24:38 come in I want to sit down and I want to 24:40 talk to her so when I called her and I 24:42 told her that she was like you're joking 24:44 I'm like no no no I'm dead serious he 24:47 asked me to reach out to you and to have 24:49 you come to the office and she obliged 24:52 and all he kept trying to do was to 24:54 impress her and on his desk he had 10 24:57 different magazines that had his cover 24:59 you know his face on it and he would 25:01 hand the stuff out when you walked out 25:03 there you thought that you just came 25:04 from like a candy store of Donald Trump 25:07 I mean you walked out with I I can't 25:09 even can tell you years and years ago I 25:11 represented a member of the royal family 25:13 of Saudi and um when he came in all 25:17 Trump would say is you know that your 25:18 father got the the airplane that I was 25:21 trying to buy you know and he was like 25:23 well yeah my I mean my dad you know 25:25 loves that plane and by the time we 25:28 walked out by the time we walked out he 25:30 had a bag full of trump 25:33 paraphernalia literally I'm not joking 25:36 as he was walking he left it on the 25:38 street corner I mean he and it was and I 25:42 was like yeah no you can't do that 25:44 somebody so he goes it I don't care 25:46 and and that's really that's really what 25:48 happened but he was so desperate really 25:50 he really mag's attention yeah no he I 25:54 mean we maybe not spent too much time it 25:56 but I do think he want he's Des to 25:58 impress people all the time I I have a 26:01 friend who's a member of Mara Lago and 26:03 took me there just before the 26:05 presidential campaign and uh Trump was 26:08 not too happy to see me there he because 26:11 partly because of Wayne Barrett who was 26:13 my close friend and Associate i' worked 26:14 with for many years at the voice and he 26:17 also I guess Trump also knew me I'd 26:18 written about him a little bit so he 26:20 first comes and sort of stares at me and 26:22 it's like like what are you doing here 26:24 and sort of barely shakes my hand then 26:26 he comes back and much more charming and 26:29 friendly and like oh it's great to have 26:31 you here of this comes back a third time 26:34 with Melania to show you know here's my 26:37 beautiful wife and you know i' like to 26:39 introduce you it was like the way it was 26:42 changing in moment to you know from one 26:46 hour to the next while we were sitting 26:47 there having dinner was uh he had 26:50 decided he was going to make a good 26:52 impression and like show me that he it 26:55 was fine for me to be there and you know 26:58 uh here's my gorgeous wife and here's 27:01 you know like I'm gonna impress you and 27:05 uh and and not be uh upset that you're 27:08 here because I'm cool and this is you 27:12 know it's almost childlike I mean it's 27:14 it's like a it's like a teenager who 27:17 who's insecure in a lot of ways I mean 27:20 he's an extremely dangerous and and bad 27:23 person but there's also that side of him 27:26 that kind of never grew up which is what 27:28 I think you're talking about he has to 27:29 show off all the time like you know my 27:31 son is 17 he's my son is 17 he's cooler 27:34 than that you know what I mean it's like 27:36 the Peter Pan effect right but Hey Joe 27:38 let me ask you this then can you share 27:40 an example of a particularly unexpected 27:45 discovery that you uncovered during your 27:47 research you know I've had I had a 27:49 couple and and I asked that question as somebody who authored two books my you know myself and in the second book Revenge we were speaking to an FBI agent and I was I was beyond blown away when 28:04 we learned um a factoid which was who was behind Trump cutting me or cutting me loose and the notion that they thought that I would just as a member of the cult I would just fall on the sword and die for him and so and I that to me was really an unexpected Discovery he's watched a lot of people do that Michael so you know but so one I I have a lot of facts and factoids that I love in this book A lot of the stuff any unexpected discoveries so so yes so one thing that was really unexpected is early in the book uh first couple of chapters I'm discussing a lot uh the anti-communism paranoia of the late 50s early 60s post Joe McCarthy that was developed in a business a scamming business by a number 29:00 of um what we're called professional anti-communists and they go around sort of these barnstorming campaigns and some of it they would do on TV uh and they were quite very very successful uh uh Dr Fred Schwarz of the Christian 29:14 anti-communism Crusade and Billy James 29:17 harus who ran something called Christian 29:20 Crusade and uh they made what would 29:23 today be millions and millions of 29:24 dollars doing this and what I discovered 29:28 that was unexpected and fun was that Jay 29:30 Edgar Hoover the greatest anti-communist 29:33 you know of his age hated these guys and 29:36 I discovered a whole cache of uh 29:40 internal FBI memoranda about them in 29:43 which Hoover and his subordinates 29:45 William Sullivan and the deputy director 29:47 and other top officials of the FBI were 29:50 actually tracking these anti-communist 29:53 Crusaders because they thought they were 29:55 a threat they thought they were a 29:57 problem and the stuff that they wrote 30:00 internally about them is just scorching 30:03 I mean up to and including you know 30:05 their discovery that uh one of them 30:07 Edgar Bundy who was the head of the 30:09 Church League of America which spent a 30:10 lot of time and money uh pretending or 30:14 trying to smear Protestant uh churches 30:18 as communist inspired uh was himself a a 30:23 pedophile not just gay secretly gay 30:26 although he was married and a a Southern 30:28 Baptist pastor but he was gay and a 30:31 pedophile and there was an extensive 30:32 investigation of him so uh that's all in 30:35 the early chapters of the book and and 30:37 it's fascinating that Hoover Uh realized 30:41 not just that these guys were Crooks and 30:44 and criminals really but that uh they 30:47 were undermining the actual defense of 30:52 the United States against communism 30:53 which was a threat and of of a certain 30:56 kind and certainly in Europe and that 30:58 they were making it harder to persuade 31:00 people that communism was a problem and 31:03 you shouldn't 31:05 uh you know that that we should oppose 31:09 communism because they were trying to 31:11 use communism to smear liberals in 31:13 churches and unions and lots of other 31:16 places and and which probably didn't 31:18 bother Hoover that much but he thought 31:20 these guys are making us look bad 31:22 because they're profiteering off of uh 31:25 this this uh this issue and it's just 31:29 it's it's a it undermines the People 31:32 Like Us who really know what we're 31:33 talking about so I loved all of that and 31:35 I used it in a few chapters just parts 31:38 of this because I I found a big uh Trove 31:41 of these internal FBI documents 31:44 online W so hey let me ask you this then 31:46 because given the polarized nature of 31:49 the current political discourse that we 31:52 are all living in some 31:55 readers might dismiss your book 31:58 partisan clearly you know both my books 32:01 disloyal and revenge have been dismissed 32:04 as being partisan how do you address the 32:07 challenge of reaching an audience that 32:09 might be skeptical or hostile obviously 32:12 to your 32:14 Viewpoint well what I try to do in the 32:17 book is to as much as possible quote 32:20 conservative and uh and right-wing 32:23 sources about this issue of grifting so 32:26 I look to the National View and I Look 32:28 to uh Red State and other sources like 32:31 that where there are some conservatives 32:34 like Eric Erikson like Jim G uh and 32:37 others who have identified this as a 32:40 problem within their movement and 32:41 complained about it bitterly and and uh 32:44 the grifting and the scamming and the 32:46 hypocrisy and as much as possible I've 32:49 relied on those kinds of sources to 32:51 expose this uh so that's one thing I've 32:54 tried to do but you're right it is a 32:56 challenge uh in a polarized 32:58 situation to have anybody look at real 33:00 facts but that's the other thing is most 33:03 of this is not rhetorical it is about uh 33:06 what they've actually done and you know 33:10 the book is highly factual I I had you 33:14 know I'm sure you know about this when 33:16 you write a book like this you undergo a 33:18 very stringent legal review you know the 33:21 publisher does not want to get sued and 33:24 uh because I laid out the facts and the 33:27 sources for the facts uh so clearly in 33:29 the book this was the shortest legal 33:31 review I've ever had I it was literally 33:33 very good lawyer and he took a half hour 33:35 to discuss with me what the issues were 33:37 in the book and I said why is this so 33:39 short and he said because you explain 33:42 where this is all coming from in the 33:43 book So for anybody who's willing to 33:46 take a look and I hope that 33:48 conservatives will listen to somebody 33:50 like uh my friend George Conway who I 33:53 think you also know I do uh who agreed 33:57 to write the forward to this book 33:59 because uh George is still a 34:02 conservative I think in most ways 34:04 certainly uh in his ideology and his 34:07 basic beliefs I think he believes in 34:09 small government all the things the 34:11 conservatives have long believed in uh 34:13 civil liberties but he also uh believes 34:16 in honesty he is an honest guy and has 34:19 given up a you know a lot to uh State 34:23 clearly his objection to the type of uh 34:27 fascist IC uh and dishonest gangsterism 34:31 that Trump 34:32 represents uh so it would be great if 34:34 conservatives would listen to one of 34:36 their own like George and take a look at 34:38 this book and you know I appear 34:41 regularly on Newsmax which I'm sure you 34:43 are familiar with and I'm gonna go on 34:46 there I know I know Chris rdy very well 34:48 right so do I and I I and I and I 34:51 consider him a friend although we 34:53 certainly disagree about Trump but uh 34:56 I'm going to go on Newsmax and try to 34:59 get them to look at this book because 35:01 they ought to know they're the ones who 35:03 are being fleeced you know the 35:04 conservatives as you know Michael the 35:06 people on the right all always talk 35:08 about how they're owning the libs you 35:10 know that's what they want to do they 35:11 want to own the libs but the people 35:13 they're really owning as I show in the 35:15 book I think pretty clearly are their 35:17 own people their own suckers whose money 35:19 they've taken over and over and over 35:22 again in millions of dollars often for 35:25 people who really can't afford it uh 35:27 those are not liberals who they're 35:29 fleecing and jipping and and stealing 35:31 from it's their own people yeah but Joe 35:35 you have to you got to be fair about 35:36 that they do get that plastic trump card 35:39 right the one that you can turn around 35:41 and you can show to all your friends and 35:43 all your family members that you are a 35:46 DieHard you know thousand plus you know 35:50 Trump black people think about the 35:53 people who bought the 47 nft cards I 35:56 mean you know at $100 a pop because I 35:59 they I guess they think that they're 36:00 going to go have dinner with Trump at 36:01 maral Lago or something I mean yes they 36:04 do get some they get some little token I 36:07 mean what about Trump University Michael 36:09 when you know uh which I discuss at 36:12 length in the book and I know you know 36:14 all about uh which was denounced in the 36:18 National Review on the eve of the 36:19 Republican primaries uh they did two 36:22 investigations of it and decided that it 36:24 was a scam Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz put 36:27 out all kinds of press releases about 36:30 Trump University and we can't have this 36:32 con man Trump as the Republican nominee 36:35 and they've all surrendered to it since 36:37 then so you know but the the the con and 36:41 the grift of trump University was just 36:44 unbelievable um yeah well you know one 36:46 of the things also you may have seen um 36:49 I just filed 36:51 yesterday um a petition a writ of Sir 36:54 shiari to the Supreme Court of the 36:56 United States predicated off of the 37:00 unconstitutional remand um Against Me by 37:04 Trump Bill barard Department of Justice 37:07 and my hope of course is that um the 37:10 Supreme Court takes the case and hears 37:12 it uh it's predicated off of the 37:15 overturning of uh or the of the Biven 37:18 case but I didn't know you seeking sht 37:21 there that's interesting uh yeah that 37:23 was uh filed yesterday in the afternoon 37:25 and the reason why I bring that up is is 37:28 as you discuss more and more about you 37:30 know Trump's grift and the News Maxes 37:33 and the oans and the uh Fox News what 37:37 they've done is they've created an 37:38 ecosystem of lies that just perpetuate 37:41 the LIE again and again and again and 37:43 it's actually it's one of the themes 37:45 that I took out from your book which 37:48 is Donald Trump 37:51 projects when he knows that he did which 37:54 is the weaponization of the justice 37:56 department to go against against his 37:58 critic me in my book 38:00 disloyal and then had me 38:02 unconstitutionally remanded back to 38:04 prison to solitary 38:07 confinement it's exactly what he is 38:10 claiming that the Biden Administration 38:12 is doing to him that's correct it's 38:15 never happened before nobody's ever seen 38:18 this before actually you have 38:21 every time you look in the mirror and 38:22 you understand that you know exactly 38:25 what you did see his belief system is 38:27 that everyone is as corrupt as he is and 38:31 therefore it's easy to project onto 38:34 somebody else what he knows that he has 38:37 done it's really a talent and it's a 38:40 talent that goes right back to how you 38:42 start the book about reality television 38:45 yes that is a that's a very correct 38:47 Insight Michael you know as they say 38:49 every accusation that Trump makes is 38:51 really a confession and I think what you 38:54 just said is really acute in terms of 38:56 his Psych pschology which is he cannot 38:59 imagine an honest person he he cannot 39:02 imagine a person with Integrity or or 39:05 morality that's just something Beyond 39:07 his conception and I think that was true 39:10 of of Roy as well and they discovered 39:11 each other and and and Roy encouraged 39:14 that in him there was no chance for 39:16 Trump to outgrow that as a young man 39:18 because uh he was he was set on that 39:22 path of somebody who just had no 39:25 conception of of what um of what 39:28 personal Integrity 39:30 meant yeah zero zero so let me then 39:33 bring us to the 2024 presidential 39:35 election um what's your thoughts about 39:39 this upcoming election and how do you 39:41 think that it will ultimately shape the 39:43 future of American politics and look 39:48 there's no point in discussing what the 39:50 future of America is going to look like 39:52 if God willing Biden pulls this off but 39:55 what's your belief 39:58 after writing this book the longest KH 40:01 how do you think that if God forbid 40:03 Trump wins how do you think that he's 40:05 going to shape the future of American 40:07 politics because as I say also in my in 40:11 my writ of Sir shiari to the Supreme 40:13 Court it's not as if Donald has not 40:16 clearly identified things that he 40:19 intends to do on day number one such as 40:22 rewrite the Constitution to destroy our 40:25 tripartite system of government confer 40:28 all power to the executive branch naming 40:31 himself um so my question to you after 40:34 the extensive research that you did on 40:36 this book how do you see the future of 40:39 American of America and American 40:42 politics it's it's if Trump wins Michael 40:45 it's very dark because he will 40:46 definitely attempt to uh and and the 40:50 people around him will certainly attempt 40:52 to imple implement uh their own version 40:55 of American fascism I mean there's just 40:57 no question about that I I first 40:59 identified the fascist tendencies in 41:01 Trump in 2015 and uh he's done nothing 41:05 to dispel that he's only gone further 41:07 and further to confirm that view of him 41:10 uh especially in this campaign uh my 41:13 hope now is that people are waking up to 41:15 that uh you know I've seen some data I I 41:19 run this website National memo and the 41:21 newsletter and so every day I'm putting 41:23 news in that and uh you know I've seen 41:26 some data that shows that people are 41:27 taking a close look at project 2025 and 41:30 the the fascist blueprint that they're 41:32 setting forth in that uh a lot of 41:34 interest in that in the last week I've 41:36 seen some hopeful data about the real 41:39 effect of the debate on the on the race 41:41 that it's not necessarily true that 41:43 Biden is predestined to lose but if he 41:45 does lose uh we are in as much trouble 41:49 as we have ever been in this country 41:52 because uh you know when Trump was first 41:55 elected uh a very Dark Day in in my life 41:58 and the lives of many Americans uh my 42:02 daughter came down the stairs and she 42:03 was weeping uh my wife was really upset 42:06 and I said to them look you know this is 42:08 really bad but uh my view of trump is 42:14 that he and the people around him and I 42:16 wasn't including you in this necessarily 42:17 are very incompetent and they're not 42:20 going to be able to do all the bad 42:21 things they want to do and then and in 42:23 some ways that proved to be correct uh 42:25 but I'm concerned now that he has more 42:28 confident and determined people around 42:30 him who uh will you know staff his 42:33 administration and that around him are 42:36 these uh very determined Christian 42:38 nationalists fascists who uh see him 42:42 just as a vehicle for their program and 42:46 that you know we're going to end up in a 42:48 in a fight for our lives really uh and 42:52 for the for the life of this country the 42:55 other aspect layered on to that right is 42:58 the whole Putin part of this which is 43:00 that uh you know the role of the United 43:03 States as the leading Force to defend 43:06 democracy in the world against uh the 43:08 forces of authoritarian and 43:10 totalitarian uh regimes is going to be 43:14 completely undermined if Trump is 43:16 President I mean it's you know the 43:17 Europeans know this who are our main 43:20 allies uh they know that if Trump is 43:22 President all bets are off and that 43:25 Putin is going to largely be in control 43:27 of US policy and that that's uh just a 43:31 the gravest possible danger to the 43:33 future of the world so you know yeah no 43:36 I have a grim view of what will happen 43:37 if he's elected I do believe he can be 43:40 stopped still uh my hope is that he can 43:43 I don't I'm not going to offer 43:44 prescriptions about how to do that I 43:46 think he could be stopped by either 43:48 Biden or Harris if if it came to that 43:51 but uh people have to be determined to 43:54 to to PR prent this enormous threat from 43:59 being uh inflicted on our country what 44:02 was the in you said in 2015 you saw the 44:05 fascist tendencies in Donald well when 44:08 he came tell me what you saw so when he 44:10 came down the escalator Right and 44:12 started off on his racism and I knew 44:14 he'd been a racist for a long time so uh 44:17 that struck me but also um you know the 44:22 fact that Roger Stone who I had long 44:24 suspected of fascist Tendencies before 44:26 that 44:27 uh who endorsed the sort of 44:29 authoritarianism of someone like Nixon 44:31 uh you know wholeheartedly all this 44:34 struck me as you know inklings of a an 44:37 authoritarian mindset that uh that has 44:42 now you know just uh completely flowered 44:46 I guess you could say in its toxic way 44:47 it's it's it's turned into from a seed 44:51 of That Into You know an entire uh 44:54 poison garden uh of of authorit 44:57 arianism uh racism uh all kinds of 45:01 bigotry and uh and you know violence 45:05 threats of violence and this is these 45:07 are all elements of fascism you know he 45:09 when he would in his rallies in 45:11 2015 uh you know encourag violence 45:15 against people who were protesting this 45:17 is these are this is fascism this is 45:20 this is what fascism really is at its 45:22 core it's it's the will to use violence 45:25 against your political opponents to you 45:27 know enforce your own idea of what 45:30 should be and that's that's unamerican 45:32 it's wrong and uh he doesn't recognize 45:35 that at all as you know he he has he 45:38 doesn't share American values in in any 45:41 way oh I think he understands Fascism 45:44 and I think he certainly Embraces it in 45:47 fact the very last line of my book 45:49 revenge is trumpism is fascism and we 45:53 must eradicate it from our body politic 45:56 I mean that's I and I think we're both 45:59 at least in full agreeance on that oh 46:02 yes I I believe that Donald understands 46:04 it and I think that he legitimately 46:07 wants to be a monarch a dictator a 46:09 fearer a supreme leader uh he looks at 46:13 people like XII ping at uh people like 46:16 um Kim Jong-un Putin um Orban he looks 46:21 at these so-called in his mind tough 46:24 guys and he wants to be part of that 46:27 club he wants be that guy yeah he's 46:30 willing to on the rest of the world 46:33 in order for it to benefit him and him 46:36 alone and everyone's like oh you know 46:38 that he's gonna pass it that he doesn't 46:40 care about passing anything down to the 46:43 Future like a succession plan that's not 46:45 what he's about it's all about him the 46:48 world starts and stops at his at his 46:52 doorstep I you know we we could not 46:55 possibly agree more about all of that 46:56 Michael and you know I think uh My Hope 47:01 Is that people are going to start to 47:02 wake up to that and realize that uh you 47:06 know if if we don't stop him then there 47:10 may be no getting rid of him until he 47:13 dead all right I mean he he he's I don't 47:16 think he has any intention of leaving 47:18 office again once if he gets back in by 47:21 the way nobody has said that on on 47:23 television or in print more than I in 47:26 2019 47:27 when I testified before the house 47:29 oversight committee and I made I was the 47:32 first one to make the statement my 47:34 biggest fear is if that Donald Trump 47:37 loses in 2020 there will never be a 47:40 peaceful transfer of power those are my 47:43 words in 2019 I was the first one out of 47:46 the out of the gate to say that and then 47:49 I turned around and I said it was on 47:50 Nicole Wallace on 47:52 MSNBC my prediction now my biggest fear 47:56 is if that Donald Trump wins in 2024 47:59 there will never be an election again as 48:02 you recognize it and I said I truly mean 48:05 it it's it's incredible well they have 48:08 elections in Russia he likes the 48:10 elections he he would like a Russian 48:11 style election 48:13 or Hungarian style election yeah exactly 48:17 right I use that as the example because 48:19 Donald used to continuously repeat 48:22 something that he had heard or read 48:24 somewhere and I just it was rep it so often that it's memorized by me verbatim and he would turn around and he would say it doesn't matter who you vote for all that matters is who's counting the vote and that was a Putin that was a Putin sort of comment at one point in time that he thought was the coolest thing he ever heard right doesn't matter who you vote for all that matters is who's counting the vote and that's why Putin gets like 9 2% of the vote election after election as you know that was the approach they took in in 2020 49:02 which was you know Steve banon said on the Halloween 2020 in a private meeting you know it doesn't matter that we won't get the most votes we're going to say we did and and act accordingly and everybody else can suck it up and that's what they tried to do uh and you know he kind of chickened out at the end I guess uh you know they they they did didn't actually you know start killing people uh in the capital the way I guess maybe he hoped they would whatever it was they they flinched at the end and he finally left office but that doesn't mean that's what will happen again their intent was really clear so here's another one of my predictions Joe everybody's talking about oh you know um how you know Donald is solely driven by the almighty dollar and that's absolutely 100% true it's all it was the reason why we got into the race in 2015 50:02 anyway it was never supposed to be about winning the presidency he didn't think he was going to be able to it was all about increasing brand awareness and Donald's line on that was Michael whatever we spend let's make sure this is the greatest infomercial in the history of American politics that's what it was always supposed to be well they did that with the first they did that with the book as you recall I the book so when I talk about Joe when I talk about Donald's desire for increased Financial wealth because that's how he evaluates himself and everybody it's based upon where you exist on the Forbes list the question I really want to ask 50:51 you is as you know and from your 50:54 reporting as well all he cares about is 50:57 the almighty dollar he is also a copycat 51:00 and I predict he is going to pull a 51:03 Muhammad Ben salmon on the entire Uber 51:07 Rich class here in America folks like 51:10 Elon Musk folks like Mark Zuckerberg 51:13 folks like Bill Gates or the Walton uh I 51:16 mean he will go after the richest of the Rich and he will have them sign over their money so I haven't thought about that but that's a very uh interesting insight and I'll tell you the reason why that makes sense to me is that's what Putin did that is and he knows I'm sure that Putin is reputed to be our intelligence Services believe he's one of the wealthiest people in the world and the reason wealthiest and possibly the wealthiest and the reason is precisely what you said he got into power and he basically robbed uh the wealthiest oligarchs in Russia forced them all to turn over a lot of their wealth to him 52:01 why wouldn't Trump be able to do the 52:03 same thing if he exercised you know 52:06 absolute power in the United States he 52:08 could take all of those uh billionaires 52:10 who you mentioned and shake them down uh 52:13 for as much as you know he could get 52:16 from them so the answer to that is I 52:19 share your view uh and they should all 52:22 be afraid um some of them are apparently 52:25 not very bright like Elon Musk I don't 52:27 know what he thinks is in this for him 52:30 but you can be sure that if Trump wields 52:33 that kind of power he will certainly uh 52:36 go after those people and their money no 52:38 doubt because that's what a gangster 52:40 does I mean exactly exactly and better 52:43 than even how Vladimir Putin handled the 52:46 oligarchs including tossing them out of 52:48 Windows um when they either refused or 52:51 they didn't sign over enough the one 52:54 thing that Trump thought was incredibly 52:56 cool was when Muhammad Ben Salman 52:59 rounded up all of the Royals and put 53:02 them in his in the uh uh the Ritz Carton on the floor and actually hung them by their necks until they signed over their wealth to him in fact he they signed over so much wealth to him the day after he went out bought a house in France near the Lou for 500 million he bought a yacht for 500 million and he bought a painting for 500 the guy spent one .5 billion dollar of money that he reconised from other Royals basically members of his own family with not with complete impunity and went out and spent it yeah I think they only had to kill one guy uh in that episode or you know but yes you're right uh that is the model and Putin I mean that's you know and you know lo and behold those are his biggest supporters in the world at this so here's that's the question I wanted to bring to you next so how do you how 54:02 do you then reconcile the fact that 54:05 these hedge fund CEOs these corporate 54:09 Titans are right now financially backing 54:12 Trump's 54:13 campaign I mean they don't understand 54:16 for whatever the reason might be that 54:19 Donald will turn on them if and I say it 54:23 out of experience there was nobody more 54:26 loyal to this guy than me nobody not his 54:30 kids not not his maybe other than Alan 54:36 weiselberg and that calamari we were 54:38 probably the three most loyal to him 54:41 look at what he did to me how he turned 54:43 on me these people mean to him what 54:47 are they doing they're really not stupid 54:50 are they just ignorantly 54:52 blind I think they are stupid in a way 54:55 because I think they 54:57 somehow they they don't believe they 55:00 think that Trump is manipulating the 55:02 masses on behalf of their interests and 55:04 up to a point that's true that's that is 55:07 the the modus operandi of the very 55:10 wealthy on the right in this country is 55:12 they've always believed well we can use 55:14 issues like abortion and uh uh gay 55:17 rights and so forth to manipulate uh 55:21 most Americans into opposing their own 55:23 interest politically because uh you know 55:27 that's in our interest and then we'll 55:28 get our tax cuts and everything else we 55:31 want but they don't understand Trump is 55:34 a is a different sort of character than 55:37 the typical Republican who goes along 55:39 with that program he is has no interest 55:42 in uh their ideology or their ideas uh 55:47 he was you know he did away with the 55:48 platform completely the last Republican 55:50 convention because he just doesn't care 55:52 about that it's simply about power and 55:55 and wealth 55:56 and what he can gain for himself and 56:00 they don't really seem to get that they 56:01 still identify their interests with his and I I think you're right they're going to find out differently and you know of of all the people who will suffer under a trump regime they're the ones who will actually deserve it but unfortunately the rest of us are going to get a a a a bad a very bad uh future from that uh that we don't deserve and you know so I agree I I guess they're not stupid they although some of them certainly are and many of them just inherited their wealth or got it from their husbands like Miriam adidon so you know I I don't I don't have the greatest respect for these people and I also have to say you know having uh grown up in this country and uh you know uh I'm so grateful to America for what I and my family have have uh been able to to do here and what the benefit of being an American these people don't seem to appreciate that they don't care that 57:01 Trump is out to destroy the foundations 57:04 of the society and the uh the form of 57:07 government under which they have all 57:09 prospered and I think that's it's 57:11 shameful Michael it's really is it's 57:13 just it's it's disgraceful that they 57:16 don't value the the uh the 57:20 institutions that created you know the 57:23 conditions under which they've become uh 57:25 very priv and Wealthy why don't they 57:27 care about that I I can't explain it I I 57:31 can't explain it either I have friends 57:33 who are Wall Street guys and they are 57:38 supporting this maniac 57:41 and they think there's something in it 57:44 for them that it's it's all about it's 57:47 at the end of the day right yeah it's about tax cuts is like I have one friend and you know and she she can tell me that she's not voting for Trump and and so I know she is and I know she's a 58:01 Fox viewer all the time because whenever we're together she's constantly spewing the fox propaganda her reason for liking Trump is she wants to do away she wants to see him do away with the estate tax the death estate tax that's all she cares about you know it's being able to leave estate tax left now now I mean there's almost nothing left of it at this point so I don't you that there should be no should calm down right there should be no estate tax at all you've paid your taxes enough over the course of your life every day that you wake up you buy a bottle of water there's a tax on it not only is there a tax on it there's a bottle tax on it and then you know you everything that you do comes with this tax price and her belief is that at the end when you're no longer here you should be able to transfer all your wealth to your children without any tax who did nothing 59:03 to earn it by the way but never mind I mean you know that's but see to to obsess about something like that when I assume she's she's a single issue voter is the way I she's quite well off to begin with to look at everything that we would lose in exchange for that I just think you know that's um and that her children would lose by the way myopic uh yes the myopic at best uh that's that's a polite way to 59:31 put it yes uh it's it's a it's it's a 59:34 mistake of we would say World historical 59:38 proportions you you you have to hope 59:41 that the great mass of Americans would 59:44 understand that that is a huge mistake 59:46 and uh that uh their own children and 59:50 grandchildren should not be made to 59:52 suffer for for the sake of something 59:54 like that so Joe look the hour goes by 59:56 very quickly herea cul I have one last 59:58 question for you so looking forward what 1:00:02 do you believe are the most pressing political challenges facing the United States and how should they be addressed like for example like what strategies or policies do you think are necessary to address issues such as we call climate change Health Care gun control social inequality and obviously there's plenty more but I don't want to use up our remaining minutes well that's that's a that's a 1:00:29 big menu uh to handle in in a short 1:00:32 period of time look I think uh that the 1:00:37 the Democratic policies the policies 1:00:39 that certainly Joe Biden has tried to 1:00:41 pursue as president have at least begun to address uh those problems you know there there's much more to be done certainly on guns uh where we need gun safety very badly uh on climate we we're behind where we need to be if we're going to really uh mitigate uh climate 1:01:01 change for the generations to come uh but at least a start has been made on some of those issues uh during this Administration and you know had the president had more support in Congress uh a bigger majority in the Senate uh gotten back a majority in the house he would have been able to do a lot more uh but you know over the years certainly he has made a start on that we have a very strong economy our inflation was in fact much lower than the rest of the world uh We've showed that we can start to address these issues now and uh one has to hope that if you really want to see any of that change in the years to come that we will have a democratic Administration and some Republicans by the way who are willing to cooperate as at least a few of them were on the infrastructure which is another huge issue that the country is fac for years that Trump pretended he was going to solve and he did nothing about it uh but 1:02:01 now we you know all over the country you can see uh the country's being rebuilt and it's being done on the basis of the program that the president put forward so you know you you can people can criticize Biden there's there's there are plenty of problems with him but I in my view at least uh certainly on domestic issues and often on foreign policy issues as well uh they've made a start at uh at resolving the biggest problems that we face yeah we'll totally agree Joe thank you so much thank you for joining me thank you for making us smarter thank you for the longest con and the other five books or so um they're all they're all spectacular you're um you're truly a wonderful writer thank you Michael it has been a pleasure and a privilege to join you uh I wish you SU success in your uh petition for sir Shari uh and Justice 1:03:00 and uh I will hope to see you again it's been great thank you Joe

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