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THE UKRAINE WAR DISCUSSION WITH MAXIM TUCKER Times Radio: Russian troops' tactics degraded as Putin runs low on armour \| Maxim Tucker PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0oeBBz6F5I Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
Russian troops' tactics degraded as Putin runs low on armour \| Maxim Tucker Times Radio 885K subscribers Jul 23, 2024 Frontline \| The War in Ukraine and Global Security 'The nature of the fighting has changed very drastically. The Russians seem to be running low on armoured vehicles. They, definitely don't want to use them in the kind of wasteful way that they were before. Russia's equipment losses in their push on Kharkiv and elsewhere have forced Putin's troops to degrade their offensive tactics, The Times' Maxim Tucker tells Frontline on #timesradio 📻 Listen to Times Radio - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio 📍 Subscribe to our channel - / @listentotimesradio 🗞 Subscribe to The Times https://www.thetimes.co.uk/subscribe/... 📲 Get the free Times Radio app https://www.thetimes.co.uk/radio/how-... Frontline \| The War in Ukraine and Global Security Times Radio Transcript 0:00 they cannot manufacture enough armored vehicles to keep up with the rate of loss as armored vehicles and I think they probably care more about that than the losses of Manpower I mean they still have great reserves that they could fall on if they need to um so I don't think it's it's so much about casualties I mean we hear on on radio intercepts you know when Russians get hit in a particular sector you know they they 0:22 call back and say we've got wounded here 0:24 we can't push forward and the commander 0:26 will come back and say like I don't care 0:27 you got to hold that position doesn't 0:29 matter that you don't evacuate so the 0:31 kind of the the ruthlessness definitely 0:33 still seems to be there but just perhaps 0:35 the availability of theed vehicles less 0:39 hello and welcome to Frontline for times 0:40 radio I'm James Hansen and today we're 0:43 talking about the latest on the war in 0:44 Ukraine and I'm delighted to be joined 0:46 by the times journalist Maxim Tucker 0:48 who's currently in adessa having just 0:50 returned from the dbass maxim always a 0:52 pleasure Welcome Back to Front Line hi 0:54 right good to see you um first of all 0:56 tell us a bit about your trip to the 0:58 dbass so so we were based in psk and we 1:01 went to the front line area around tet 1:04 um to see the latest Russian offensive 1:06 where they're trying to push forward and 1:08 take the town of tet which has been uh 1:11 was basically liberated by ukrainians 1:12 from the hybrid Invasion 2014 and has 1:15 been very close to the front line ever 1:16 since then it hadn't been the subject of 1:19 a major Russian push until recently in 1:22 the last month and a half the Russians 1:23 have tried to attack this area 1:26 intensively basically what they're 1:27 trying to do is having run into 1:29 difficult IES with their offensive in 1:31 har and their offensive in Chas of yard 1:33 for the really key town of 1:35 Constantinople which is really important 1:36 strategic Railway and Road Junction 1:39 they're trying to go through the 1:41 Tourette Junction now to the South so 1:43 they're trying to move through Tourette 1:44 to take constantina um and they've 1:47 realized that there was a weakness in 1:48 the Ukrainian lines because the 1:49 Ukrainian lines are stretched very thin 1:51 and they've had to move troops to defend 1:53 chavar from that sector so what Ukraine 1:56 is now had to do is take troops in from 1:58 brigades from other sectors of the front 2:00 line and put them in there to plug the 2:02 hole and this is a kind of constant game 2:04 of cats and mouse now the Russians are 2:05 probing for weaknesses in the front line 2:07 they G they gain a few footholds and 2:09 Villages and then Ukraine has to 2:11 redeploy some forces to try and drive 2:13 them out what is the nature of the 2:15 fighting we're seeing around tetk so the 2:18 nature of the fighting has changed very 2:20 drastically I mean the Russians now they 2:22 seem to be running low on armored 2:25 vehicles um and they uh definitely don't 2:27 want to use them in a kind of wasteful 2:29 way they've been using before so the way 2:31 that the Russians are trying to capture 2:33 Villages now they send in very small 2:35 groups of infantry perhaps three or four 2:38 at a time try and hide from the 2:40 persistent drone coverage that 2:41 ukrainians have and the drones are such 2:43 a big feature at this war now there's no 2:44 way that you can't see apart from in the 2:47 undergrowth and in the tree lives the 2:48 only people that can hide effectively 2:50 there really and move forward are 2:52 infantry so what the Russians are doing 2:54 is trying to send in three or four guys 2:56 trying and find a house or a basement or 2:58 position where they can and then send 3:00 another three or four guys and another 3:01 three or four guys until they grouped 3:03 enough people there to attack a 3:05 Ukrainian position what these troops are 3:07 also doing is proving Ukrainian lines to 3:09 try and find out where the Ukrainian 3:11 strong points are and then bombard them 3:13 in the real Glide B um and obviously 3:16 ukrainians are are aware of this they're 3:18 looking out they're trying to find these 3:20 guys with drones the Infantry call in 3:22 when they when they make contact so then 3:24 the the ukrainians deploy first person a 3:27 few drones where reconnaissance drones 3:29 they try and hit with artillery um and 3:31 this is such you know the donbass is in 3:34 such ruins now it's very hard to find a 3:36 shelter if they find a few intact houses 3:38 Ukraine has quite quickly cuton onto 3:40 them and hit them with artillery or PV 3:42 drones um and that seems to be now that 3:45 there are new def Brigade deployed in 3:47 that area it seems to be holding for now 3:50 um the Russia's offensive here and and 3:53 is that change of tactical approach in 3:55 terms of sending in fewer infantry to 3:57 begin with is that very new 3:59 it's something that I think we saw in 4:01 harv um the difference I think in harv 4:03 offensive was that they had quad bikes 4:05 and other things to move much more 4:07 rapidly and the troops in the hard 4:09 offensive seem to be very highly trained 4:11 and we spoke to a few people who said 4:12 that these were SPS as Special 4:13 Operations forces they were attacking 4:15 through that area um but definitely you 4:18 know because of the nature of the Drone 4:20 Warfare everyone can see everything um 4:22 it's very difficult to get armored 4:24 vehicles into position and those the you 4:26 know before the hary fent it was still 4:28 very much a case of the Russian sending 4:30 Columns of mechanized um armored 4:32 vehicles into battle and hoping by sheer 4:35 force of numbers to break through belind 4:38 um that seems to be increasingly 4:39 difficult and they don't have perhaps as 4:41 many of those to spare as they did 4:43 before so yeah over since the har 4:45 offensive and certainly in the donbass 4:47 over the last month and a half this is 4:49 what the Russians seem to be focused on 4:50 trying to do where the problem for them 4:52 is they can maybe take some Villages but 4:54 it's very difficult to generate momentum 4:56 to have a you know a very fast moving 4:59 offens when you don't have armored 5:00 vehicles at those perhaps what they're 5:02 doing is to try and trer weakness hit 5:04 those positions with artillery TR the 5:06 Ukrainian lines down and then perhaps 5:08 they would try and send in armored 5:10 columns if they made a 5:11 breakthrough how strategically 5:13 significant would you say tet is well 5:16 it's important because it's on this road 5:18 to Constantino Constantino C is really 5:20 the the goal here because if the 5:22 Russians can take costantina it means 5:25 that they really hamper Ukrainian 5:27 Logistics they can sever Logistics like 5:30 um through that Railway through that 5:31 road Junction and it also starts to to 5:34 flank Ukrainian troops in chass of Y 5:36 which is a really really strong position 5:38 for the Ukraine it's the Russians have 5:39 be throwing themselves against chavar 5:41 which is on the heights it's it's 5:43 defended by canals so it's a very good 5:45 strategic position for the ukrainians to 5:47 hold on to and the Russians have 5:48 realized after really very long time of 5:51 attacking chess that perhaps it's easier 5:53 to go through touret now tetk is a city 5:55 as I said that has been on the front 5:57 line since 2014 and it's since the 6:00 fullscale invasion has been completely 6:02 destroyed by Russian guide bombs and 6:03 artillery so it's very hard for 6:06 Ukrainian soldiers there to find cover 6:08 it's very hard for recting Logistics to 6:11 move through the city without being 6:12 exposed because there aren't all these 6:14 tall buildings that used to be there in 6:16 the way of the Russian dress so the 6:18 Russians can see them they can spot them 6:19 and they can hit them going in um so it 6:22 seems to be you know a better strategic 6:25 option a weakness in the Ukrainian 6:27 flight to to to to attack but now the 6:30 ukrainians have moved in brigades new 6:31 brigades there they we might see the 6:33 Russians probe somewhere else and try to 6:35 advance somewhere else you mentioned the 6:37 Drone Warfare obviously throughout the 6:39 conflict we've seen huge Innovations 6:41 particularly on the Ukrainian side of 6:42 using often quite lowcost commercial 6:44 drones to to great effect on the 6:45 battlefield are we still seeing 6:47 Innovations all the time yeah there is 6:50 all kinds of hacks that the Ukraine do 6:51 obviously that that the Chinese 6:53 manufacturer of these drones have said 6:55 they don't want them to be used for 6:56 military purposes I mean whether they 6:58 really care I given how many are the 7:00 numbers that they're selling to both 7:02 Ukraine and Russia but you know they've 7:04 introduced different things that are for 7:06 civilian features that you know you can 7:07 locate different drones and it's like a 7:09 kind of social media Network for drones 7:11 so you can see where other DJI users are 7:14 and ukrainians constantly have to try 7:15 and fix these with kind of hacked 7:17 patches of the software to make sure 7:19 that you know they're not revealing 7:21 their positions they've also found out 7:22 that they're internal sensors in in the 7:24 in some of the drones that they can use 7:26 as additional cameras they weren't using 7:28 those cameras before and there's well 7:29 it's a constant kind of battle for like 7:32 upgrading the hardware and the software 7:34 to make sure that you have an Advantage 7:35 Plus both sides now have better 7:37 electronic warfare devices now you see 7:39 all the Ukrainian um vehicles that we 7:42 travel in when we go to front Lan 7:43 positions they always have to have 7:45 electronic warfare counter measures we 7:48 we won't travel to the front line 7:49 without them because the risk of fbp St 7:52 strikes on ours is so high but the 7:54 Russians also have them and they're now 7:55 the point where you can easily fit them 7:56 in a backpack so you have like 7:58 individual soldiers wearing these 8:00 electronic countermeasures and so when 8:02 Ukrainian drones go over you know to try 8:05 and find the Russians you start seeing 8:07 the signal straight be lost on the Drone 8:09 feet um and Ukrainian drone Pilots have 8:11 to try and maneuver and zoom out and go 8:13 somewhere else to try and get a 8:14 different angle on the Russians where 8:15 the signal isn't inter feared yet um one 8:18 of the things that I was told which was 8:19 very interesting is at the beginning of 8:21 this kind of month and a half um new 8:23 offensive Russia had obviously very 8:25 carefully prepared its fpv drone pilots 8:28 in a way that they hadn't before and 8:29 they started using a new frequency which 8:32 they hadn't used before and a lot of the 8:34 electronic counter measures were not 8:35 adapted to to block um and they attacks 8:40 like in large numbers with fpp um 8:43 Ukrainian Logistics line on this new 8:45 frequency the jamming wasn't working and 8:47 they had quite a lot of success which is 8:48 one of the reasons they were able to 8:50 push forward in that 8:51 sector I thought it was interesting you 8:53 wrote a great piece for the times last 8:54 week when you talk about how Ukrainian 8:56 troops are using Google Hangouts just 8:58 tell us a little bit about that well 9:00 it's it's fascinating to see the way 9:02 that kind of all of this civilian uh 9:04 technology is being put to use in 9:07 military purposes um I get you know I 9:09 asked you know when was the start of 9:11 this it seems to be quite a long time 9:12 that people have been using these secure 9:14 devices like Google Hangouts relatively 9:16 secure WhatsApp relatively secure for 9:18 Russ Russian hacking and apparently it's 9:20 something just happened organically then 9:22 more and more lits were using it um but 9:24 it's very weird you know if you've ever 9:25 been in a Google Hangout with your 9:27 friends and you kind of have that 9:28 situation remember during the pandemic 9:30 playing poker with my friends online and 9:32 you see a group of faces on the screen 9:33 and you're talking in chatting um and 9:36 then to see see that but just suppose 9:38 with drone Pilots falling in Russian 9:40 positions and people talking to each 9:41 other about where the Russians are now 9:43 in this Google Hangout and then they 9:44 screenshot maybe the location of the 9:46 Russians on the map or particular joed 9:48 they send it on WhatsApp they get 9:50 commands through these Google Hangouts 9:52 so it's um yeah it's very interesting to 9:54 see this kind of stuff that we're so 9:56 used to seeing in our everyday line it 9:58 be used for completely different purpose 10:00 the Russians just to go back to some of 10:02 the new tactics we're seeing from Russia 10:04 now particularly in in Tourette because 10:06 is that in any way a sign of the Russian 10:09 casualty rate having an impact and them 10:10 wanting to reduce it the fact they're 10:11 just sending in fewer infantry in sort 10:13 of you know groups of three or four is 10:15 is that to do with the Russian casualty 10:17 rate at all I think it's more reflection 10:20 of the nature of the Drone Warfare 10:21 because you if you have a large number 10:23 of people you can see their movies and 10:25 they're trying to infiltrate Ukrainian 10:27 positions they're trying to use small 10:28 groups and then and then built so it's a 10:31 it's trying to accommodate for the fact 10:33 that there's nowhere really to hide on 10:34 the modern Battlefield it's very very 10:36 difficult to attack a position on SE um 10:39 and I think you know there was an 10:40 interesting report in The Economist that 10:42 said that Russians are are kind of their 10:45 storage of Soviet era storage of weapons 10:47 that they produced at that time which 10:49 was absolutely rast s did be depleted um 10:52 and perhaps they are conscious that they 10:54 cannot manufacture enough armored 10:56 vehicles to keep up with the rate of 10:59 loss as armored vehicles and I think 11:01 they probably care more about that than 11:02 the losses of Manpower I mean they still 11:04 have great reserves that they could call 11:06 on if they need to um so I don't think 11:08 it's it's so much about casualties I 11:11 mean we hear on on radio intercepts you 11:13 know when Russians get hit in a 11:15 particular sector you know they they 11:16 call back and say we've got wounded here 11:18 we can't push forward and the commander 11:20 will come back and say like I don't care 11:22 you got to hold that position doesn't 11:24 matter that you don't evacuate so the 11:26 kind of the the ruthlessness definitely 11:28 still seems to be there 11:29 but just perhaps the availability of 11:31 these armored vehicles is less and also 11:34 they just haven't found an effective 11:35 tactic I mean you know they gained in 11:37 this sector maybe five kilometers quite 11:39 rapidly but then after the ukraini has 11:41 for a new brigade it slowed 11:43 significantly um and I think the 11:45 Russians see that they're throwing all 11:47 these forces against the ukrainians and 11:49 they make incremental gains you know 11:50 since the beginning of the war there 11:51 haven't really been like great big 11:53 Russian breakthroughs um so everyone is 11:56 just trying different tactics different 11:57 strategies to try and find some kind of 12:00 advantage on the battlefield that is 12:01 otherwise very much a 12:03 stalemate is it your sense Maxim that 12:06 the the Russian offensive that began in 12:08 sort of the early spring has somewhat 12:11 stalled could we go that far yeah I 12:14 think in in the hardc offensive hasn't 12:16 got anywhere near where they wanted to 12:19 get I think they they needed to take 12:20 lipy this Village which is within 12:22 artillery range of hard cities so now 12:25 they needed to take that so that they 12:26 could basically bombard hard and make 12:28 Ukraine second largest city untenable to 12:31 live in um they haven't managed to do 12:33 that and that's not very far from the 12:34 Russian border so I think you know that 12:37 area of the offensive has now stalled 12:39 and they are looking for different 12:40 places to push the tette maybe being one 12:43 of them but again the ukrainians seem to 12:44 have reacted quite well to that re 12:46 active in a timy fashion and they're 12:48 holding them for now but we have to 12:50 recognize Ukraine is you know the troops 12:52 are spread really really thin uh they're 12:55 having to move brigades around different 12:56 places to try and cter the Russian 12:58 threat and these brigades have been 12:59 fighting for a long time they're really 13:01 tired um and until Ukraine's kind of 13:04 mobilization Drive kicks in and kind of 13:06 more trained recruits uh kind of coming 13:09 to the front line areas to reinforce 13:11 them there is a danger that these kind 13:13 of exhausted troops will make mistakes 13:14 we'll let Russian slip through I mean a 13:16 lot of this work depends on drone 13:18 operators looking at drone feeds you 13:21 know eight hours a day maybe longer the 13:23 commanders looking at it making sure 13:25 that they can see every time you get a 13:27 small group of three or four Russians 13:28 get through because if you miss those 13:30 Russians then they can again they start 13:31 to build up in a position where they can 13:33 attack and take your position um and you 13:35 know some of the people that we were 13:37 talking to you know I'm doing it working 13:38 on dispatch now which is about the 47th 13:40 Brigade is one of the kind of elite 13:42 brigades that was equipped with Western 13:44 Equipment they've got Bradley Fighting 13:46 vehicles and the dispatches about you 13:47 how effective these vehicles are even 13:50 you know they were designed in the 1970s 13:52 80s um and they're still effective 13:55 against fpv drones today which is some a 13:57 threat that they probably never expected 13:58 to face but you know some of those Crews 14:00 we were speaking to them um and I would 14:02 say how is the situation here and it's 14:04 it's near F which is another place the 14:06 Russians are trying to push how's the 14:08 situation now and they say it's more or 14:10 less calm and we're sitting there we can 14:12 hear like cluster Munitions coming in 14:14 there multiple Lo rocket systems coming 14:16 in like Bradley's are calling in that 14:18 they've been hit or by an fbb drone 14:20 strike and for them this is relative 14:22 calm because they've been in the zapia 14:23 counter offensive they were fighting 14:25 Thea but that's a bad situation for your 14:28 troops to be in if your tro are so tired 14:29 that they think it's it's calm and it's 14:32 normal when you're being hit with 14:33 artillery to that degree then they're 14:35 not going to react quickly enough to 14:37 threat so they're not going to get on 14:38 the deck some of the world W body armor 14:40 anymore it's so hot here um you know 14:43 that's that's a dangerous point you want 14:44 troops who are you know that know the 14:47 positions they're in the ideal point is 14:48 when they're quite familiarized with the 14:50 positions they're in maybe if I come a 14:51 month two weeks in um but are still 14:54 alert to the dangers they face takeing 14:57 cover where they need to take cover you 14:59 one of those scws we we they were very 15:01 casual when we visited them and it 15:02 wasn't really a dangerous place and we 15:04 went back to the command center and 15:06 spent some time with the command 15:07 Battalion and then you know five minutes 15:10 later they were calling in that they 15:12 were being targeted by 152 millimet 15:14 artillery so you know they were still in 15:16 a very dangerous place and they were not 15:19 really thinking that it was 15:20 dangerous just picking up on your 15:22 conversations with Ukrainian troops how 15:24 would you sum up Ukrainian morale at the 15:27 moment I think they're very frustrated 15:29 they're very tired um you know so many 15:32 of these losses they feel could have 15:33 been avoided you know they appreciate 15:35 the Western support but they don't 15:37 understand why there are such delays and 15:39 it comes and DPS and drabs and it's 15:41 never enough quantity at the right time 15:44 to infix a kind of decisive blow on the 15:46 Russians a decisive defeat that would 15:48 say okay that you know would force the 15:50 Russians to come to the negotia everyone 15:52 has started to be realistic that there 15:54 needs to be some kind of negotiated 15:56 settlement but they cannot do it from a 15:58 position of weakness they need to be 16:00 have a you know Victory Hound to go to 16:02 the Russians say negotiate the favorable 16:04 terms otherwise we just have Putin 16:06 saying I want these foral blasts which 16:07 I've got you know taken taken some part 16:10 of um so I think there's frustration 16:14 there is tiredness there is a obviously 16:16 sense of loss because they they've lost 16:18 so many people um but also you know a 16:21 frustration with their own government 16:23 because they feel that the recruitment 16:25 campaign isn't going very well and 16:26 Society in Ukraine has the idea that if 16:29 you were going to the front line you 16:31 almost certainly be killed um and one 16:33 Commander that LE spoke to said it's 16:34 it's it's not right yes you know out of 16:36 a company 100 people during one campaign 16:38 maybe five to seven people get killed 16:41 and you know might have 20 30 wounded at 16:43 some degree around you need to get other 16:45 people who are sick other people who 16:47 need to go visit elderly parents or you 16:49 has like a third child that releases you 16:50 from the military and and they're just 16:52 tired you know you need more troops to 16:55 give the guys who been fighing on front 16:56 lines for two years of break they really 16:58 need that break some of the reasons I 16:59 just described you know you lose your 17:00 alertness your sense of normal that's 17:03 distorted um and that is the reason 17:05 really the Ukrainian should be saying 17:06 this is the reason we need a 17:08 mobilization a equipment not because 17:10 everyone's died but because the guys who 17:12 are fighting on the front line needed 17:13 rest and that would be better M they're 17:15 frustrated the government not doing that 17:17 that they're instead of inspiring people 17:19 motivating people to fight they're just 17:20 dragging them off the street um and 17:23 that's so you know when that happens 17:24 Russians a huge deal of it scares people 17:28 and get this ex so people now trying 17:31 however they can to leave the country 17:33 because they think it's you know better 17:34 to risk your life swimming across a very 17:36 dangerous river than go to the front 17:38 line because you have a better chance of 17:39 surviving the swim of the river even 17:41 though many of those people are dying 17:42 there so the messy is needs to be 17:47 improved yeah how has that misconception 17:49 been allowed to take hold is it just 17:50 that the messaging from the Ukrainian 17:52 government isn't good enough is it 17:53 Russian propaganda feeding into it is is 17:55 it a mixture it's always a mixture I 17:57 mean there's often a grain of Truth to 17:59 Russian propaganda they're very good at 18:01 finding a kind of ele a divisive um 18:04 point in in Ukrainian Society playing it 18:06 up playing it up so you know if there 18:07 were a handful of videos of people being 18:11 taken off the street into buses for 18:13 whatever reason there you know those 18:15 videos are broadcast without any context 18:17 just looks like Ukrainian like 18:19 recruiters are just press ganging 18:20 everyone they're played everywhere they 18:22 make sure that everyone sees those 18:23 videos um and probably they shouldn't 18:25 have been allowed to happen in the first 18:27 place that the way that Ukraine regroups 18:29 people and it explains why they're 18:31 taking people into a custody you know it 18:33 might be that person was already called 18:35 as a military office they should have 18:36 already gone to um have a health check 18:39 up but they didn't do any of the things 18:40 that they obliged to do and then they 18:42 you know that carries with it penalties 18:46 um but done if that's being explained 18:47 really well obviously the Ukrainian 18:48 government has other things that it's 18:50 focused on it's really like it focus is 18:52 always trying to get the diplomacy 18:54 trying to get more West weapons in order 18:56 to continue the fight um but and and I 18:59 think some of the early messaging from 19:01 zilinsky was very helpful when he had 19:03 this Rift with zusy he said look the 19:05 Army has asked me for 500,000 people on 19:08 heat but I'm going to say no and he 19:10 basically portrayed himself as the kind 19:12 of defender of Ukrainian civilian 19:14 Society um holding back the military who 19:17 wanting to take all the soldiers and 19:19 once he which he did for his own 19:21 popularity benefit once you set that 19:24 framing it's very difficult to unravel 19:25 it so when the Army now say we need 19:27 these people if defend the on Bath 19:30 difficult for him to say okay I was 19:31 defending you against this Army who have 19:33 like this rapacious hungry people that 19:35 just want more people for the meat grind 19:37 now he has to change that Framing and 19:38 they haven't done that very 19:40 well um I mentioned you have been in the 19:42 dbass you're now in adessa what is the 19:45 situation there particularly when it 19:46 comes to the city's air 19:47 defenses so I think the city air 19:49 defenses are they are they've obviously 19:53 been eroded by the fact that they've 19:55 lost they' had to use a hell of a lot of 19:57 missiles to inter 19:59 Russian missiles that come off over the 20:00 Black Sea you know they have good like 20:03 uh systems but they ran very low for a 20:05 time when the US was holding up its um 20:08 60 billion in Aid um and you still see 20:11 like a lot of missiles get through and 20:13 the Russians change their tactics you 20:14 they were before they were flying the 20:16 drones very low to avoid detection now 20:19 they decided we'll fly the drones very 20:20 high so that you can't use bullets to 20:23 shoot them down you have to waste your 20:24 missiles to shoot them down and we fly 20:26 the missiles very low so it's hard to 20:27 spot so they're kind of reverse what 20:29 they were doing before um but I think 20:31 the really interesting thing that I I've 20:33 seen in adessa I'm here reporting on on 20:35 some of the develops of Black Sea that 20:36 be some interesting things to talk about 20:38 going board um but the what's had been 20:41 very interesting to see in a city where 20:42 it's kind of been 35 degrees is that the 20:46 impact of Russian strikes on Ukrainian 20:47 infrastructure there were blackouts you 20:49 know on and off rolling blackouts um and 20:52 one day it was 35° and the water was 20:55 shut down there was no running water 20:56 because there was no water to to pum for 20:59 for a full day and that's happening on 21:00 and off and on and off because so many 21:02 of these electric um Power stations have 21:05 been destroyed now and you know some of 21:07 them most of them are Beyond Repair 21:09 actually so Ukraine is having to try and 21:11 import energy from neighboring European 21:13 countries and find a very quick solution 21:15 to this energy price obviously when it's 21:17 35 Dees everyone's got their air 21:19 conditioners going and that encourages 21:21 the blackouts because you know there's 21:23 not enough power for the Grid at that 21:25 point but people you know really 21:27 suffering they can't do jobs they can't 21:29 you know people can't keep their food 21:31 cold in the fridges you know you have 21:32 you know can't use the bathroom because 21:34 you've got no running water um it's it's 21:37 it really interrupts the Ukrainian 21:39 economy the Ukrainian way of life and 21:41 civilians I think are really starting to 21:43 feel the difficulty and that will 21:44 encourage probably a new wave of 21:46 migration refugees going to Europe if 21:49 not now certainly in the winter when 21:50 people will be very cold um unless you 21:53 know they won't be able to um maintain 21:56 an order life you can't do a job you 21:57 can't you can't work it's very very 21:58 difficult to to operate in those 22:00 circumstances and what ukrainians had 22:02 tried to do is get their own generators 22:04 so there's generators worrying 22:05 throughout the city they're very loud um 22:08 you know they create a lot of air 22:10 pollution it's uh you know that's been a 22:12 kind of short-term solution but it's 22:13 it's very difficult to provide enough 22:15 power to to power like everything B you 22:18 need in an apartment block for example 22:20 using a 22:21 generator you mentioned the Black Sea 22:23 obviously adessa is on the edge of the 22:24 Black Sea and and Ukraine has had 22:26 tremendous success at uh degrading the 22:29 Black Sea Fleet for instance and has 22:30 continued drone strikes against Crimea 22:32 is there a real sense that that region 22:34 is is is crucial for Ukraine now going 22:38 forward yeah the Black Sea is is 22:40 essential for Ukraine's economy you need 22:42 like they they need to be able to use 22:44 those sea roots to export grain to 22:46 import the you know vital food stuffs 22:48 and other things into Ukraine you know 22:51 and they have managed to do that I mean 22:52 it's very impressive that the Ukrainian 22:54 Navy have been completely outgunned and 22:58 you know so many more ships in the 22:59 Russian black fet the Ukrainian Navy 23:01 together with um Ukrainian military 23:03 intelligence and Ukraine State security 23:05 so have struck so many Russian vessels 23:07 in the Black Sea that they combined 23:10 ports not only in Crimea because there 23:11 have been strikes inside ports in Crimea 23:13 as well but more often way way over to 23:16 the Russian side of the coast um and 23:18 that has allowed ships to to operate 23:21 through this kind of unilateral grain 23:23 Corridor that Ukraine has created um 23:26 that's really important but there's also 23:27 a sense you know that Ukraine could 23:29 really manage to isolate Crimea and make 23:31 it difficult for the Russians to keep 23:33 their faces there and that's very 23:35 important because as long as you have 23:37 Russian air bases on Crimea it offers 23:40 the opportunity to strike anywhere on 23:42 the south of Ukraine and even deep more 23:44 it's another direction that you have to 23:46 defend against with your kind of limited 23:47 air defense capabilities um so isolating 23:51 the Russians there making sure they 23:52 can't get supplies across the CCH Bridge 23:54 making sure that ships can't resupply 23:57 those areas is's going going to be 23:59 really crucial to the Ukrainian Warfare 24:00 there one of the few areas that we've 24:02 seen success and optimism in in um in 24:05 the last 24:06 year I mean the kch bridge when you talk 24:08 about isolating Crimea is the Kirch 24:11 Bridge the key the Kirch bridge is 24:14 hugely important The Rail Link there is 24:15 is really important you know we've seen 24:17 Ukrainian attempts to bring that down so 24:18 you know with some success um I think 24:21 the question is you know when is the 24:23 most strategic time for them to do that 24:25 what myself are they using it every time 24:27 that they use an storm Shadows that the 24:29 Russians learn a bit more about them if 24:31 they use other kinds of missiles the 24:32 Russians will learn a bit more about 24:34 them so they and they don't have so many 24:36 and and more importantly more cruly they 24:38 don't have so many jets to to use the 24:40 storm Shadows they've run quite low on 24:41 those jets that they need uh so you know 24:45 I think we can expect more attacks on 24:47 the Kirch Bridge the Russians are trying 24:48 to defend it more effectively trying to 24:51 adapt it there were some drone strikes 24:53 on the CCH Bridge which also damaged it 24:55 um but I think you know there will be a 24:57 point when the ukrainians will be trying 24:59 to hit that that bridge hard and and 25:02 disable it um and it just depends on 25:04 where they could have buy their 25:05 resources at any one point sex you know 25:07 it's such a big front line you thinking 25:09 about hardk all the way down to to the 25:12 hon region it's just an enormous front 25:14 line you have to defend and you have if 25:15 you're going to have a kind of offensive 25:18 operation like the kind you would need 25:19 to disable the curch bridge and then 25:22 capitalize on it by you know striking 25:24 the Russians of crime because if you 25:26 disable the C bridge where you don't do 25:27 much about the Russian bases all Prim is 25:29 not much point you have to do both of 25:30 those things at the same time um so they 25:33 need to concentrate forces it's very 25:34 difficult for them now where they have 25:35 Manpower shortages um and they're still 25:38 reporting you know delays in West 25:39 weaponry and lot of the brigades in 25:40 donbass that we haven't had anything you 25:43 know one guy said we got we had four 25:45 mark 19 automatic grenade launches since 25:47 the 60 billion package and that's it for 25:49 an entire Brigade and he thinks maybe 25:51 that's because a lot of it has been 25:52 shipped to hard because that was the 25:54 most pressing me this year um but you 25:57 know it's varies very very slow going 25:59 and it doesn't come in you know huge 26:00 some of that is because of production 26:02 difficulties in the west but also a lot 26:04 of it is just political 26:06 will and another area we've seen um 26:09 Ukraine having success is also drone 26:11 strikes on places like rostov oblast 26:14 inside Russia how significant would you 26:16 say that is it's it's huge I mean you 26:18 know taking the war to Russia is a 26:20 really really important you know Ukraine 26:22 cannot just find a defensible when all 26:24 of its infrastructure is being torn 26:25 apart and it's not able to hit Russian 26:27 infrastructure and the things that are 26:29 allowing Russia to wage war effectively 26:31 the oil Depot the the kind of Munitions 26:34 factories things like that deep inside 26:36 Russia Ukraine need to be able to strike 26:37 those um and obviously the UK has been 26:40 helpful recently and realistic and 26:42 practical and saying yes you can use our 26:44 Munitions to strike targets inside 26:46 Russia military targets inside Russia 26:48 it's very strange that the US still says 26:50 we're limiting the way that we use our 26:52 weapons um you know forcing Ukraine to 26:55 to fight a kind of very one-sided War 26:57 but UK Ukraine in anyway has been 26:59 adapting to developing its own gron we 27:01 see some of these longrange strikes are 27:03 very intive they just kind of bought 27:05 kind of Italian kit planes put them 27:07 together put kind of different hardware 27:09 and software in order to remote guide it 27:10 and then strike very very long distances 27:13 inside Russia where the Russians weren't 27:15 expecting it but as everything with this 27:16 war when you start when you start doing 27:19 something that's new the enemy tries to 27:21 adapt to it and we'll discover how 27:23 you're doing it and find new ways of of 27:25 stopping it so there the Russians will 27:27 see now that they're using these kick 27:29 Lanes they kind of will have an idea of 27:31 what kind of range they can reach um and 27:34 try and install their defenses stop that 27:36 happening it's still effective because 27:37 it stretches Russian resources more 27:40 thinly and I think the Russians uh the 27:42 ukrainians sorry will be developing more 27:44 drone capabilities it could have these 27:46 longer range strikes and are very 27:47 effective we just today we saw an O 27:50 refinery in Russia was hit and that will 27:53 have an impact on on the Russian war war 27:55 effort and just finally Maxim you've 27:57 obviously reported from Ukraine a lot 27:59 over recent years from your 28:01 conversations this time around sum up if 28:03 you can that the general mood amongst 28:05 Ukrainian troops about where they think 28:07 the war is at the moment and what the 28:09 state of play is I think the main 28:11 talking point in the trenches has really 28:13 been at what's going to happen with the 28:15 US elections is that going to just 28:17 totally undo us because if USA stops 28:20 it's this this war is unwinable they 28:22 will continue to defend and continue to 28:24 fight but it just takes away any kind of 28:27 hopes of what we TR Trum do if he's 28:28 elected you know what's happening with 28:30 Biden why is he why is he still running 28:33 when he's obviously had so many gas um 28:35 you know they're really really worried 28:37 about this what the future like without 28:39 us support um and I think you know that 28:44 there is not that sense of optimism 28:46 certainly that we had before the summer 28:48 counter offense of last year there's not 28:50 any kind of there's not we talked about 28:51 plans of something similar like that you 28:53 ask them like is it even possible that 28:56 Ukraine could mounter a counter 28:57 offensive you have the resources to do 28:59 that every brigad says there's the way 29:01 that we could M counter offensive now 29:03 it's just going to be defensive War for 29:05 the foreseeable future obviously that 29:06 could change if political decision 29:08 making change you know the US decided 29:11 will give Ukraine what it wants when it 29:12 wants and in the numbers that it once um 29:16 but for now yeah it's a kind of we're 29:18 holding on we're still determined but we 29:21 don't see how thises this going to end 29:23 or when this is going to 29:24 end Maxim always appreciate your time 29:27 thank you for joining us today on 29:28 Frontline thanks very much 29:30 James thank you for watching Frontline 29:32 for times radio for more click subscribe 29:34 on our YouTube channel you can listen to 29:36 times radio and you can read more about 29:38 the war in Ukraine and Global Security 29:40 with your times digital subscription

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