Date: 2025-01-04 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00027514
THE UKRAINE WAR
GEN- BREEDLOVE INTERVIEW
Times Radio: Putin running out of radar as Ukraine destroys NEBO-M with ATACMS missile | Gen. Breedlove
GEN- BREEDLOVE INTERVIEW
Times Radio: Putin running out of radar as Ukraine destroys NEBO-M with ATACMS missile | Gen. Breedlove
Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElP7V131LG0
Peter Burgess COMMENTARY
Peter Burgess
- 0:00
- so uh first let's just remember this is not the first time that Ukraine is used
- an atacks to strike Radars most of the Times They are doing this it's in R
- Russian occupied Crimea or inside of the Russian occupied lands of Ukraine or
- very nearby the border so this is nothing extremely new unless if this
- radar system was deep inside of Russia or or what we would call deep in this
- conflict then that's a very different thing and and that's kind of one of the policies that we want to have addressed
- in general Russia is uh beginning to feel the brunt of a growing capability
- inside Ukraine to strike more deeply in Russia we hello welcome to Frontline for
- times radio with me K chabo and this time we're joined by former Supreme Allied Commander Europe General Philip
- bre love in his 39 years military service he's also held positions including Commander us European command
- 1:06
- and Commander US Air Forces in Europe he's a regular commentator on the war in Ukraine for us and it's great to see you
- back General on front line welcome uh president zilinski has presented his victory plan to President Biden and both
- presidential candidates permission on long range missile strikes into Russia remain Elusive and we're facing all that
- war in the Middle East and winter coming to the battlefields of Ukraine how do
- you see the outlook for Ukraine at the moment well if we just looked at the
- performance of the Ukrainian military and what they're doing you would uh you
- would I think conclude that the Outlook is good Ukrainian military is is uh
- affecting change on the battlefield etc etc but then if you begin to consider
- the policy support to Ukraine and the Western policies that uh in my
- 2:03
- opinion severely limit Ukraine's ability to fight this war then it's a little bit
- more concerning and you and I have talked about this before I'll just sort of preempt a little bit by saying that I
- I still believe that the number one thing we need to give Ukraine is better
- policy yes um just in terms of developments um at the moment the
- Ukrainian military is reporting to have used attack's ballistic missiles to strike a Russian radar system destroying
- the nabo M ra radar can you tell us a little bit about how Russia uses this St
- system and how value high value the target is so uh first let's just remember this
- is not the first time that Ukraine is used in atacam to strike Radars most of
- the Times They Are doing this it's in R Russian occupied Crimea or inside of the
- 3:05
- Russian occupied lands of Ukraine or very nearby the border so this is
- nothing extremely new unless if this radar system was deep inside of Russia
- or what we would call deep in this conflict then that's a very different
- thing and and that's kind of one of the policies that we want to have addressed in General Russia is uh beginning to
- feel the brunt of a growing capability inside Ukraine to strike more deeply in
- Russia we in the west forbid uh Ukraine from uh using Western
- kit to strike deeply into Russia and the United States even imposes it will on
- Nations like yours the United Kingdom and not allowing them to use storm sh
- 4:00
- and other things because of American components in those missiles I personally think this is a horrible
- policy and it is resulting in real problems for Ukraine but the fact of the
- matter is Ukraine now is building its own capability to fire into Russia and
- they're beginning to take the attack to Russia you've seen some amazing film of
- the recent strike against the large Russian Ammunition Depot and striking
- against aircraft and airfields in the rear so the radar systems like this one
- we're talking about are a part of a network that Russia is trying to use to
- defeat uh Ukraine's ability to strike deeply into Russia and you even signed
- an open letter recently demanding that keev be granted permissions to strike deep into Russia with these Western
- missiles President Biden has been criticized as being weak for not doing so and some analysts argue that tactical
- 5:00
- gains would not be decisive to Warrant the risk of this retaliation do you think that those kind of stengths can
- then I me you site that the ammo Depo being struck do you think they could be decisive well the word decisive carries
- a lot of uh you know connotation what is absolutely true I
- know is that using the ability to precisely strike uniquely military
- targets on the Russian side of the border is key to any military campaign
- that Ukraine would run we would never limit a western force from striking the
- enemy before the enemy can come to bear on us we are now forcing Ukraine to
- allow Russia into their area before they can strike them with Western weapons
- it's it's absolutely crazy and you know you can get punded saying anything you
- 6:00
- want but you're not going to find too many military thinkers who have commanded at
- senior levels who would share the opinion that we should not allow Ukraine
- to strike the enemy before the enemy can BR bring his forces to bear on Ukraine
- it's just it's absolutely crazy it's interesting that um Israel's allies have
- now twice come to its defense against Iranian missiles is this likely to have
- any influence on the justification for the limitations imposed on the way Ukraine defends
- itself I don't think so absolutely sadly sadly we in the
- west uh NATO and certainly the White House are deterred by Mr Putin the most
- effective weapon that Mr Putin has used in this war is his war of words his war
- of intimidation every time things start to go bad for Russia or America considers
- 7:03
- doing something to help Ukraine immediately there's a flurry of new policies about nuclear weapons new
- policies about the use of nuclear weapons threatening to use nuclear weapons nukes nukes nukes nukes and also
- there is a flurry of conversation about this war will widen and of course once again American soldiers are going to die
- on the battlefields of Europe and so Mr Putin's war of intimidation is
- succeeding wildly especially in my capital and we are limiting ourselves in
- this response and I see this now beginning to bleed over into Israel um we see people already uh our
- own president talking about Israel should not attack the nuclear program of
- Iran trying to limit Israel's response uh and in the first round of uh
- um uh firing into uh Israel from Iran in the spring Israel was attacked by 110 or
- 8:06
- so um ballistic missiles and uh the west
- and certainly the United States was leading uh convinced Israel to moderate
- their reply and Israel went back with a very small uh reply so did it work no
- now Iran has attacked with a larger group of missiles 181 is the number most
- people are using it may have been more so Iran was not phased by initials ini
- Israel's initial response we'll see what Israel's response will be this time so
- so as President Biden comes to the end of his pres presidency how would you judge his record on foreign
- policy so I I hate to do politics in public you know that I will just say
- that that um we in the west and
- 9:03
- certainly we in America have uh
- acquiesced uh in the interest of not allowing this to uh become a broader war
- or in not allowing this to become Nuclear So what has the world
- learned what has uh she's in pain what has the the leader in North Korea what
- has the moas in Iran learned if you threaten the West if you threaten
- America with nukes they will back up and so at some point we in the west have got
- to establish what is the stopping point I wouldn't use the word red lines
- because we have backed away from Red Lines many times but we have to determine at what point we need to
- reesta Lish the deterrence that we have lost I'll say that one more time we need
- 10:05
- to reestablish the deterrence that we have lost just to um focus a little bit on on
- the battlefield situation in Ukraine how much importance do you attach to the apparent fall of vladar in the donbas
- Russian troops have been trying to capture it since the fullscale invasion but it's unlikely to lead to any
- significant breakthrough for Russian forces is it it's more symbolic than anything else
- I read a startling uh startling uh number yesterday I don't
- know yet whether I should believe it but the Russians have lost over eight times
- the population of ludar in Russian soldiers to take it the
- cost to Russia to get to this city has been imense uh some of the best estimators I
- think uh are actually from the UK about what the losses for Russia have been in
- 11:03
- this war and now I'm hearing as many as 650,000 dead or severely injured in this
- war the cost to Russia is immense the drain on the Manpower in their
- Industries is starting to show uh as they are unable to do things
- they need to do industrially and pretty soon Mr Putin is going to have to answer
- to the mothers fathers of Moscow and the surrounding cities for the loss or the
- the complete decimation of 650,000 plus soldiers I I don't know how my country
- could ever do that taking into account everything you've just outlined how long do you think that Russian Force forces
- can sustain this meat grinder approach to Warfare sadly to be intellectually
- 12:01
- honest I think they can do it for quite some time because as long as Mr Putin has the iron grip on the people and
- those who control the people and all of the uh uh media and all the ways to
- speak to his uh the Russian people uh it's unlikely that uh that it's going to
- change drastically I do agree I do agree with those who say you know you know
- that that the recent um sort of breaks in the glass or
- cracks in the glass are important what what happened with the uprising and the
- defeat of the uprising and what they're doing with with their uh their contract
- troops and who's in charge of the contract troops the various
- organizations uh it's not a perfect world for Mr Putin but he still seems to
- show an ability to AB absolutely control the Russian people what do you think is
- 13:04
- the biggest challenge Ukraine is facing this winter is it keeping the lights on is it maintaining the front lines or
- keeping the political support on board that bigest challenge is is what
- is going to happen in Western capitals and what is going to happen uh in the US
- capital across the next um several months um again I don't don't like to do
- politics but either outcome in America could be problematic for Ukraine um uh
- on one side it may be a continuation with a little less support of sort of current trends on the
- other side uh I don't know I I don't want to start rumors or anything but it
- it clear it appears that the other side is ready to capitulate to get a stop in
- uh a stop at all cost in the fighting a ceasefire and so right now there's no
- 14:05
- real clear outcomes in either camp that that I think are are uh going to be
- really helpful so I think the toughest battle across the next several months
- for Ukraine is does its international support go away do we do we capitulate
- to Russia uh as a way forward and that dep and the only debate by the US presid
- vice presidential candidates um it didn't give a single mention uh to the war in Ukraine what was your reaction to
- that and why do you think that is well I think I think that um um that's to be
- expected um I think while I am a person that is concerned about Foreign Affairs
- and how the world is going elections in America do not turn on Foreign Affairs
- election in America turn on abortion inflation uh social programs etc etc the
- 15:08
- the the things that are closest to home and closest to the table are what truly
- affect um elections in America uh foreign policy is pretty far down the
- list now this year they may rise a bit because you
- have again what what everyone's talking about in America you've got this sort of
- Trio of huge challenges coming on our country right now you've got the
- continuing war in Ukraine and foreign politics and Israel you've got the um uh
- uh do worker strike which are going to cause prices and inflation to go up in
- America and you know we've got the the continuing concerns about just inflation
- economy uh price of food etc etc and so
- 16:03
- the president the next president will face some severe challenges and one of those challenges will be of a foreign
- policy bent and and uh right now uh again uh there are many in America that
- look at the foreign policy approach of both sides and their concern and that that point that um Democrat candidate
- camela Harris made that um reaffirming us support for Ukraine saying it was in the US's strategic interest to support
- Ukraine obviously from what you say and we know it doesn't Chim with everyone in the US but why is it in the US's
- strategic interest what do you say to people if they they don't seem
- interested so um if you look at how the
- US entered World War I and how the US entered World War II
- learned uh authors who write about these run-ups to the war and how it all
- 17:05
- happened almost universally conclude that the delayed entry of the United
- States into the war increased American Dead increased European Deb increased
- the impact to the world economy increased the impact to the US economy
- and so what we see is that isolationism trying to just stiff arm problems
- because we're on this side of the ocean and others are on the other side this
- approach has almost always hurt America more in the end game we are uniquely
- connected to Europe half of the world's GDP between us uh almost all of our not
- all but a huge portion of our ancestry uh our businesses our values
- 18:01
- all of these things are connected to Europe embodied in NATO frankly if
- you'll allow a former NATO Commander to say that but we are uniquely connected
- to Europe and if we allow Europe to get in trouble uh we will be in trouble if
- Europe's economy suffers our economy suffers um if we allow a nation that is
- wanting to become Democratic and separate itself from the Warsaw PCT
- Soviet Union model in days if we allow that Nation to be
- overrun by uh an illegal immoral
- inhumane leader and War then all of this will shake out bad for the United States
- and so I believe that we need to be proactive in the way that we approach
- our support of things and matters in Europe yes we all sort of disagree and
- 19:03
- frankly yes what I learned as the sack year is every nation thinks about itself first it was only 28 when I was there
- but you could guarantee first discussion on anything there were 28 National
- positions and so we we have to remember that we we truly are stronger together
- uh when it comes to Europe and we can't allow a war in Europe and and that's what we have oh by the way we have a war
- in Europe we can't allow that to go on without being involved and find
- ourselves in the same way we were in World War I and World War in in that
- light um how optimistic about are you about what the new NATO Secretary
- General Mark Rutter can bring to to Nato and to Ukraine so um I'm always optimistic
- about NATO it's the right thing it's going to be more important in the next 75 years than it was in the last 75
- 20:03
- years and and NATO will move forward I I
- don't know the gentleman I'm sure he's very good I'm sure he's very good may I just say that he has been given a base
- from Yen stoltenberg that is absolutely Superior I'm a bit biased I was invited
- to be a part of giving him a leadership award in New Year in New York uh uh just
- recently on the margins of the UN and got to interview him after he got his
- award in front of the the crowd and Yen stoltenberg has done a magnificent job
- for the European Alliance of NATO and so I think that the new segen is going to
- start from a great place and yes he will make new uh impact on the alliance I
- expect only good things it's understood that that part of President zelinsky's Victory plan is to
- 21:01
- be formally invited to join NATO is there any way of redesigning the
- accession process or the membership criteria so Ukraine can't no he's saying
- no he say no yeah I want that to happen but I don't think it's going to happen
- not in a time of War H it's it's even I don't even place
- it on that and I I'm going to be a bit accusatory here but remember that Mr Putin's main goal in life is to drive
- cracks in NATO and then like freezing water to break those cracks further and
- further apart and right now we have a couple of countries that find themselves very closely aligned with Mr Putin and
- those countries are being adamant that there's not going to be membership for
- uh Ukraine and NATO and as long as Mr Putin is able to control people and use
- them in these kinds of arguments um it's going to be really hard to bring uh Ukraine aboard the
- 22:04
- great nations of NATO will have to find themselves in a position where
- they have to bring their unique pressure to bear on these sort of uh uh Putin ver
- sters who are on in NATO and then maybe we could move forward so it's really
- about the politics first not what's going on in in Ukraine yes yes we'll
- have to get some sort of resolution to the con conflict and settle the lines
- whatever they're going to be but first and foremost we have to recognize that
- Mr Putin has huge inut influence on several people in NATO and that's a
- problem we're goingon to have to deal with so we'll just have to wait for that irreversible moment in the future and
- keep our fingers crossed for the time being I guess um you spoken to me uh and
- been very critical in the past about the West failure in deterrence over Putin's Russia you mentioned it again today when
- 23:06
- it invaded Georgia when it annexed Crimea what do you think are is the west
- or NATO allies blind spots right now either over Ukraine or wider Global
- threats well uh I'd like to use uh um a sort of a parallel from my life raising
- children and now helping to raise grandchildren in
- 2008 the West's response to the invasion of Georgia was
- inadequate and we ended up allowing Russia to hold on to 20 to
- 25% of the great nation of Georgia and so we rewarded bad
- behavior in 2008 in 2014 Russ Russia amassed its Army
- 24:00
- marched across internationally recognized borders and has occupied and
- is attempting to subjugate portions of Ukraine in
- 2014 the West's response was inadequate
- and we ended up allowing Mr Putin to hang on to between 12 and 13% of some of
- the most important commercial parts of Ukraine so for a second time we reward
- bad behavior now in 2024 after two years of the most
- horrific I said it before inhumane inhuman illegal
- Warfare uh there is a movement to once again uh
- capitulate reward Russia for bad behavior so back to the original premise
- here's what I know about children and grandchildren if you reward bad behavior and you reward bad behavior and you
- reward bad behavior you are not going to get good behavior in the future what Mr
- 25:05
- Putin has learned is that he can take a portion of a neighboring Nation threaten
- nukes in wider War the West backs down and now he moves on to his next
- objective at some point at some point we're gonna have to do something I'm I'm
- not a historian forgive me if I don't get the reference perfect I believe it was Stalin who said when you approach
- your enemy fix your bayonet press your bayonet into his belly if it is soft
- push further and harder if it is hard pull back and reconsider I would offer
- that 08 14 and now 24 uh Mr Putin has found us to be soft
- and he's going to continue to push so as you see things today and
- assessing all that you see and know the information available how do you think the war in Ukraine must end in order to
- 26:03
- not reward bad behavior well uh again we want to do
- what the ukrainians want to do I think it's not our job to determine what is
- the final outcome in Ukraine it has to be the ukrainians and I believe that the way
- the West has supported Ukraine by giving them enough not to lose but definitely
- not giving them what they need to win uh we have we are sort of wanting Mr
- zalinski to realize he's gonna have to go to the table um the West is not intellectually
- or morally capable right now of considering a defeated uh Putin and what
- that means and so we are I think waiting for Mr zalinsky to determine what are
- acceptable negotiation terms and so at some point Mr zalinski and the people of
- 27:04
- Ukraine will probably come to a point where they determine how that future
- shapes out and then we'll end up negotiating um I think that it's
- important to remember that in a military sense for Ukraine to be viable we've
- said that many times in America we want a Ukraine that's whole and viable and blah blah blah if Ukraine is to be
- viable into the future in a military sense we think of two things that have to exist we have to have a an a an
- environment of security and we have to have rule of law if we don't have
- security or rule of law investors are not going to come in people are not
- going to bring their money and their business to Ukraine to try to recover it
- because if we they don't think there's going to be a secure environment why am I going to invest billions in a factory
- 28:02
- if if we don't think there's going to be rule of law how why would I put my money into anything and so I think that uh we
- have to make decisions in the long run about security there has to be a
- guarantee of security and there has to be rule of law and just before I finish
- this I know I've gone long remember that the West has given
- Ukraine a guarantee of security in the past if you go back to the budapes
- memorandum of 94 four countries said you give up your U nukes
- and change your military orientation and we will
- assure your borders and your sovereignity that was the US the UK
- Ukraine and Russia how are we doing so far Russia
- 29:00
- invaded us and UK have done a lot we have to be thankful for what they have
- done but they have not assured the borders in the sovereignity of Ukraine
- those are both still in the balance how do you provide that security
- those security guarantees for Ukraine though while it's still waiting
- NATO until it joins NATO well before for NATO then we just
- have to uh continue to do things that we have said in the United States actually
- our verbage has changed in the last six months we've actually heard our uh two
- most senior military leaders the SE Def and the president use the word that
- we're there until Ukraine wins that's a completely different Paradigm than we've
- lived in but the again if I go back to my childhood here's why what my mother
- used to say people don't care what you say they watch what you do so we have
- 30:05
- said now that we're going to support Ukraine to win we're going to have to change our support to Ukraine to allow
- them to win all the way back to my first remark in this session and that is we
- need new policy General breed love it's been great talking to you let's talk again
- and keep an eye on this thank you so much for your time well thank you you been watching Frontline for times radio
- my thanks to Lou Sykes our producer to support the work of Frontline hit the Subscribe button you can also listen to
- times radio throughout the day or read it at times.co.uk thanks for watching bye-bye