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MENTAL HEALTH TRUMP'S MENTAL HEALTH MeidasTouch \| The Weekend Show: Top Psychiatrist BACK with NEW FINDINGS on Trump Mental Collapse PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Toqi88Qv4 Peter Burgess COMMENTARY This is quite long ... really too long! But the subject is important and thought provoking. Peter Burgess
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Transcript 0:00 [Music] it's Sunday October 6th 2024 I'm Anthony Davis welcome to the weekend show where we make the time to consider the news of the week you can support my work and independent journalism at patreon.com minut news we are continuing our Series in conversation with forensic and social psychiatrist and World expert on violence Dr Bandy Lee welcome back to the weekend show thank you for having me back so this is our first opportunity to talk post your mental health conference your dangerousness conference about Donald Trump at the national Press Club in Washington DC and uh as you know I've 1:00 put some of it out on uh the five minute news channel and people have been reacting to some really very um dramatic announcements from some of your panel of almost 20 experts um from a range of disciplines not just mental health but from National Security uh which is obviously very important in this instance maybe we can start with say one of the first speakers who really kind of took my attention and that was General and Dr Steven zanakis the retired Brigadier General and Medical Corp officer of the US Army because he he started talking about his job as a military physician and I I never really occurred to me as to whose job it would be to be the authority to say this person is unfit unfit for office and he says as military Physicians we were called on frequently he said it was fundamental to our practice that we would do eval uations 2:00 for Fitness for Duty and we would have to respond to a request of our leaders to say is this person be cleared for security and can this person go back in the cockpit or should this surgeon go into the o or should we have he talked about the nuclear assurity program should this person have access to nuclear weapons and I suppose that's a good place to start with Donald Trump who is unraveling more and more as he falls in the poles and his use of language in the last week since we last spoke has become all the more egregious so this this concept of of of mental Fitness this really is the kind of Lynch pin of the conference isn't it yes well I started by opening that it was not a medical that it was not a political conference but a medical conference it was titled the more dangerous state of the world and the need for fit leadership and the reason why we held the conference in the first 3:00 place was because as mental health experts we had uh been trying to warn the public about the mental unfitness the psychological dangerousness and uh the dangers to the Public's mental health of Donald Trump and so that's why we came out with the first book in 2017 the dangerous case of Donald Trump with 27 psychiatrists and uh two years later with 37 psychiatrists and this year with the conference we released the more dangerous case of Donald Trump 40 psychiatrists and mental health experts warn a new so uh it's actually part of our duty in fact uh not just to call out uh signs of unfitness or dangerousness in fact Dr zanakis mentioned that one duty that he has is to see when he sees something to say something 4:04 and that's a duty we all have as mental health professionals but we're often called upon to evaluate someone's Fitness or dangerousness to the public that's what I do on a regular basis as a forensic psychiatrist so it was indeed interesting to hear him describe how he performs the same assessment in a military setting an Absol absolutely Fitness and dangerousness are critical Central and and constantly monitored in the military setting in fact you cannot enter the military without a fitness for Duty examination and rigorous psychological exams that are renewed every year to be in the nuclear assurity program but the person who commands nuclear but how is it that Trump has been skipped it's like this is what I can't get my 5:02 head around so now we know courtesy of Dr zanakis we know about the people that do these evaluations from a military perspective when it comes to you know the having access to the nuclear codes but how did Donald Trump circumnavigate that because we know about more Junior people in the White House struggling with their security clearances and there was all that controversy with Jared Kushner for example but are they making an exception for Donald Trump the man's a convicted felon now I mean why are we not talking about this stuff is it that he's such a he's an ex-president he's also a populist and that his sheer the sheer magnitude of his personality means that people just turn a blind eye in the in the security services absolutely it's an extraordinary exception people often often cite the Constitution that there are no requirements of mental Fitness 6:05 tests before one enters the Oval Office but there are multiple steps along the way where we can make this a requirement even before nomination even before candidacy uh the the political parties can require it it's an extraordinary exception because every job every task requires mental Fitness and uh mental Fitness is presumed until there are signs of unfitness at which time an employer in in the president's case the people can demand that he pass a fitness exam before he resumes his duties and uh the fact that this has not been communicated to the public especially when we're relying on the public to make all these judgments uh and and to have the singular intervention of a vote uh not to inform the public has been an 7:01 egregious Omission uh catalyzed by the American Psychiatric association spreading disinformation when it elevated its own obscure Guild rule of the Goldwater rule as a universal gag order against all mental health professionals it was never supposed to be that way because we have uh a professional societal responsibility that super preds all else and Dr zanakis confirmed that in the in the conference that that there is a duty of care involved and the Goldwater rule is a is a guideline but it's not necessarily the law let's just go back though to to a president getting security clearance because I would presume that because Obama was a Senator so he must have had some kind of checking go on there I mean Reagan was governor I mean the various 8:00 you know the bushes of course they've all held political office in some way or public office in some way before they became president so there's almost a natural vetting process there but Donald Trump nothing right he came from he came from the television Studio straight to the White House he he never held public office in any form he toyed with the idea of running for president for self-promotion purposes over the years but he he was never a serious candidate he also didn't expect to win and maybe the security services didn't expect him to win either in 2016 so I mean has this all contributed to the fact that he has circumnavigated the these important checks well and the public was unaware that there are dangerous personality disorders in fact the most dangerous personality disorders are the least detectable because they are deceptive manipulative and they have severe 9:02 symptoms that can spread across the population what I've been calling Trump contagion because severe symptoms are far more contagious than uh moderate symptoms or uh even persuasion rational persuasion and so the reason we held the conference in a major way at the national Press Club ballroom was so that we could try to make up for this lack of Education of the public the public has been deprived of uh mental health education in ways that has been extraordinarily detrimental I mean we can trace back every Calamity stemming from the Trump presidency including ones that are not recognized back to the spread of his symptoms and uh uh that's uh why we held the conference and why we feel the need to spread the message of 10:01 the conference uh we came out with a collective statement after the conference that all the panelists the renowned panelists of National Security and mental health expertise have all signed to be able to propagate now to the public uh but this is uh I often get the question how do we inoculate ourselves from from contagion we have uh vaccines against the covid-19 pandemic what do we have against this mental health pandemic and the answer is education the the the public needs to know what interventions are necessary and possible we've said from the very beginning that if mental health interventions did not happen all other interventions would fail because this was primarily a mental health issue and that's what has come to pass uh the main 11:01 conclusion of the National Security Experts was that legal methods have failed political interventions have failed uh the military standards have not held against Donald Trump and now all that we are left with are the people to be able to save us from Total Annihilation or getting very close to it and uh what we need now was to allow the public to have the information they need to make informed rational decisions and of course you're talking about the vote and we're just a month away now from the general election critical period it's a it's a critical period And I think you know there will be critics who are watching us who will say that you talking about Annihilation is too dramatic and that you know it's not it's not the the type of language that should be you know that is appropriate and I would I would remind 12:04 people that you know this is an existential threat because the research has been done the data has been gathered the analysis has been done this is not just your opinion absolutely not that it is not opinion that is based on science facts and mental health principles was the conclusion of the conference in fact that's a part of our Collective statement I can read a part of the collective statement if you feel that that's appropriate so participants of the national Press Club conference the most D the more dangerous state of the world and the need for fit leadership have issued the following Collective statement and it is that this election comes at a most important turning point in the nation's history for these reasons top National Security Experts and leading mental health experts came together as never before on SE September 27th 2024 at the national Press Club in 13:03 Washington DC to participate in an unprecedented conference and the experts feel it is most important to inform the country of the conclusions they collectively expressed they are that mental Fitness is a medical issue not a political one the immense powers of the presidency require that anyone elected to that office be mentally fit in the nuclear age a president must understand that there is no security without Mutual Security Fitness for Duty and dangerousness are different evaluations than diagnosis of mental illness and Donald Trump has demonstrated signs that could make him unsuitable and dangerous for the White House the experts tackled how our country is governed by whom our country is LED and whether the in Institution of our democracy are sufficiently resilient and self-correcting to meet the dangers and 14:04 challenges of our time we urge all Americans to watch the one and a half hour video summary of the conference at dangerous case.org and we urge all Americans to ponder as each of us had to do at the conference why we all decided to come together for this singularly important gathering at this critical time and decided to jointly endorse this urgent statement so that I think the fear is not speaking up isn't it because what we don't want to happen is for Donald Trump to win this election for all hell to break loose not just domestically but internationally by nature of his inability to understand who is the friend and who is the foe you know he he is a he is an Enemy of the State legally he's in legal cases against the United States we'll talk a little more more about those later with the latest 15:01 unsealing of evidence and he is aligned with Russia he's aligned with North Korea he's aligned with turkey he's aligned with Hungary he's aligned with the Nations that we from a human rights perspective that we do not hold close as as friends let alone our military history so to not speak up to not hold the conference with would have been far more dangerous than the risk you take with your own careers speaking up and being criticized and being ridiculed or being ignored which is almost as bad because people can't take they can't intellectualize how serious the threat is as a as an existential crisis that's right because he is such a dangerous individual who had attained such a position of power many people caved and gave not knowing that uh Co colluding cooperating being 16:05 complicit with his uh ways would eventually endanger us all the American Psychiatric association first aligned with him afraid of losing their funding because they are federally funded and it was an Administration that was later shown to Simply dry up any scientific organization that did not tout and promote his anti-scientific uh assertions and so the fact that the APA got windfalls of federal funding under the Trump Administration is telling of just what is at stake for their organizations but that is a fear that must be overcome if we are to have any security because eventually all Security will be gone and he is in fact in in addition to his alignment with the most 17:01 dangerous dictators of the world he himself has destabilized Global Security in multiple ways but primarily through the spread of trump contagion because I'm seeing I mean Netanyahu there's a lot of heat on him right now and you could argue that he wouldn't have the confidence to do what he's done if he didn't know that he had the support of Donald Trump Trump in a future Trump Administration exactly and uh his spread of a whole different mindset not just his upending of the world order by completely um well uh weakening our alliances traditional alliances and and uh collaborating with uh dangerous dictators but and and bolstering them by uh supporting their policies or or endorsing them or keeping them uh immune from responsibility when 18:02 they've committed uh even the murder of journalists uh he has uh spread uh an ethos of conflict competition uh destruction as opposed to collaboration and cooperation and put ego back into these potential dictators because you know it's it's just a decision isn't it a decision to go to war is something that these individuals make or to retaliate or to you know commit atrocities in a certain you know under a certain guys or under a certain name the problem we have now with the US and its relationship with the Middle East is that it's chaos you know it's it's chaos you have Biden calling for a ceasefire and then at the same time you have the you know National 19:00 Security uh Administration going well actually we're supporting conflict it's it's it's chaos because of what has gone before because of of of changing positions and policies as to who is the friend and who is the foe it's very complex what I try and say to people because I don't like to get into conversations about this because it's above my pay grade but two things can be correct at the same time you know you can be supportive of Israel but you can also not want them to go to war with you know half their neighboring countries two things can be can be true if you wish to be supportive of Israel you would wish for them to be safe and to follow policies that are uh productive in safeguarding their future uh survival right now that's not happening in a very destructive and self-destructive individual ual is in power who would be willing to destroy 20:02 the world in order to stay out of prison and isn't Netanyahu a an equivalent example of Donald Trump somebody who is not really who says he's representing his people but actually he's he's protecting himself and this is why we don't want leaders to be investigated for fraud and Corruption and you know illegal activity we want them to stay clean because the moment that they get involved in criminality then their leadership is compromised yes and why Fitness evaluations would be an incredibly good idea for leaders because especially since dangerous individuals are able to whip up um fervent public support through spread of symptoms through the the uh manipulation in ways that are are truly 21:00 hypnotizing uh Ruth and Wilner called uh these individual spellbinders uh Adolf Hitler was considered a seismograph of crowds and Donald Trump has been compared to hypnotist and and that is true they have this extraordinary skill where they're able to meet the very emotional needs of the vulnerable first the vulnerable uh individuals of the population but then eventually all uh through uh their psychological manipulation and spread of severe symptoms which is why Trump contagion is uh so Central to what is happening right now and why it's so important to contain because now it's gotten to the level where it is a collective psychosis in fact sh psychosis yes is a topic that came up during the conference and uh well that 22:03 that's what I wanted to talk about I just want to go back to Dr zanakis because he said that Trump doesn't understand what's going on he's not inquisitive he said frankly as it was the case that people felt about Richard Nixon he doesn't show character he doesn't have the temper the temperament he doesn't have the integrity and and that's really the thing isn't it that you have to be a full fully formed human to have empathy for the Palestinians or for the people of Lebanon or for the people of Israel to to actually connect and whilst Donald Trump might say that you know he's best friends with with BB and and you know make that his priority he still doesn't care for the the people of Israel he he he he only cares for how it's going to make him look and whether or not it will protect him from any kind of um prosecution and you could say the 23:04 same for Netanyahu right now that's right individuals who are not fully developed in fact have uh grave personality disorders which are usually developmentally wounded uh individuals and keeping them out of positions of power which they seek uh relentlessly because in order to it's a disordered method of fulfilling one's uh feelings of or countering one's feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness by taking on these power positions but in turn they wreak havoc on society and so if we kept these individuals out of high office we could probably prevent anywhere from 95 to 99% of global atrocities I want to I want to quote the doctor again when he said the interesting thing that we had have is that there were was a circle around Donald Trump when he was president who at times will come and speak and tell 24:05 the stories about what it was like working with him uh about how fit he was and how capable he was and he talked about John Bolton former National Security advisor and he he's written this book in the room where it happens or happened uh and he talks about he he says that the president has systematically governed with single-minded Instinct for looking at issues entirely through the prism of what is good for him and not what is good for the country I mean you know and John Balton is a staunch Republican so you know this is what we're starting to hear now and we've seen this with Liz Cheney in the last week where she's now you know a former senior Republican who is now campaigning on the same stage as Kamala Harris for the Democrats you know it it clearly matters to her that the Safety and Security of the country and party over country sorry country over 25:04 party has been the slogan of these of these meetings essential isn't it uh many at our conference were former or current Republicans uh Attorney Richard painter uh The Honorable claudian Schneider um they uh they were Republicans and they uh were speaking not of party interests but of the survival of American democracy and all humankind we'll we'll we got to take a break but I want to take a look more at some of the uh quotes that came out of the the conference and and some very interesting views and opinions things that I hadn't even thought of that I I was really interested to hear so we'll do that next here on the weekend 26:01 show there's a lot happening these days it can feel especially stressful or hopeless when things are outside your control but calm can help you restore your sense of balance and peace amidst outside chaos if like me you have trouble sleeping or maybe you've had difficulty focusing things like parenting pressures or work challenges well something that could really make a difference is calm calm is the number one app for sleep and meditation giving you the power to calm your mind and change your life calm can help you learn to destress and fall asleep faster so you can get restful sleep every night and calm knows that everyone faces unique challenges in their daily lives and mental health isn't about a one-size fits-all solution that's why Cal offers a wide range of content to help you navigate life's ups and downs stress less sleep more and live better with with calm for listeners to this show calm is offering an exclusive offer of 40% off a calm premium subscription at 27:05 calm.com weekend go to cm.com weekend for 40% off unlimited access to Cal's entire Library that's calm.com weekend we're back on the weekend show with Dr Bandy Lee I'm Anthony Davis you mentioned just before the break uh that at the conference you had Professor Richard painter who he's the former Chief White House ethics Council of the George W Bush Administration and a republican as you quite rightly say his opening statement that he made when he got up to to speak at your conference was he said I'm a lawyer and and the law can't help you now he he effectively confirmed our worst fears that the guard rails the protection of the law of the United States have failed to protect us from Donald Trump 28:06 and as you said earlier the vote really is all that we have left you know when you have someone of his scale making a statement like that because you know most lawyers like to claim that the law is is is there for all of us and and is always going to you know be the right course of action but when he's wiped his hands of the of the of the law in this instance for me that was a real moment to sit up and be like uhoh if he doesn't think there are any protections then what hope is there for us well that is because every task and every function even upholding of Institutions depends on mental capacity and we have a president a former president who lacks mental capacity we 29:04 determine that when we actually did an evaluation we did do a fitness evaluation of uh by the reports of those circling around him at the time because the Muller report was actually the ideal information we could have to do a fitness evaluation by forming an independent non-governmental panel uh of top mental health experts in the country that uh we were able to make use of this information of the highest quality under sworn testimony to be able to actually complete a fitness evaluation of Donald Trump that was in 2019 and he failed every Criterion this is by standardized methods uh the way we do all uh mental Fitness evaluations which we do on a daily basis all around the country country for all kinds of positions it's the same evaluation that 30:03 you adjust to the position so we adjusted to the US Presidency uh but he failed all the basic uh capacity for rational reality-based decision making and so uh this is the situation we've had many of us sensed that his level of unfitness was to a agree that he would spread this unfitness and that would disable uh the institutions and uh interventions around him and that is the consequence of skipping over and ignoring a mental health intervention in a case of an Mental Health Emergency um it was brought up during the conference that impeachment is now a dead word prosecution cannot happen because he's immune and courts are not functioning because of the political 31:04 pressures and and so that's the situation we are in right now and even the vote the way it is influenced by Trump contagion and the shared psychosis that has spread uh we have a situation where we don't we cannot be sure of the outcome that why are the two candidates even close one is a convicted felon who is unfit immoral uh unjust that's how he was described at the conference and yet he is neck and neck with KLA Harris yes it is it is remarkable isn't it I mean I'm yes I have lots of theories on these and we have talked about some of them before but she's pulling ahead now in the National poll maybe four points uh as as we speak but it is shocking to me that the whether it's the methodology for recording these polls or whether it is the the bias that exists in society 32:06 which you could call Trump contagion whereby he is getting way more coverage and he is legitimized and he is sandwashed by the media by social media and by the press and and this is very worrying because American people Des deserve so much better you know if if we're honestly saying that he is the best that the Republican Party can do in terms of a candidate knowing everything they know and that's why it was very interesting I think to watch the vice presidential debate the other day and to see that you know in JD Vance you have somebody who is as dangerous as Donald Trump but manages to present as a moderate he's he he can he's personality is entirely fabricated that's right when you have no core no substance in you you can 33:06 fabricate anything and become extraordinarily convincing even more convincing than the person who has the real uh personality and that is what is so dangerous and frightening and the population has been primed to be completely uh uh receptive and relenting to such a personality let's just go back to the conference because I want to quote Dr Drew Weston he's professor of psychology and Psychiatry at Emery University and author of the book The Political brain he said that Donald Trump meets criteria for narcissistic personality disorder he said which is kind of obvious he meets criteria for the DSM 5 the diagnostic manual for antisocial personality disorder he meets criteria for Psychopathic personality disorder which 34:01 is a little bit different from antisocial he gets um he said gets more at the things like the lack of remorse and the internal psychological trauma to to quote him traits that are involved meets criteria for paranoid personality disorder and that's not even getting into the delusional disorders that people had mentioned earlier in the conference including grandiose and paranoid delusion I mean that's quite a informal diagnosis isn't it just for starters well uh what a lot of people don't know is that uh diagnosis is something you do from a personal examination to a private patient in order to treat them so diagnosis is difficult from a distance although not impossible it's uh actually much more possible these days with the diagnostic methods we have uh but dangerousness and unfitness are functional assessments that are possible to do uh which is one assessment that we did that is included 35:03 in the book but Dr Weston very interestingly developed a 200 item uh diagnostic assessment from afar that seasoned clinicians can perform to detect uh demagogues and he had form this he had formulated this and researched it uh back in 2008 so he is it's not for Donald Trump based on Donald Trump And yet when he scored Donald Trump he uh was simply off the charts all of that is also reflected in the other assessment that we did uh the dangerousness risk assessment that a panel of the most eminent living psychiatrists have done uh which is also included in the book The more dangerous case of Donald Trump TR it was a pre-sentencing report that was prepared 36:02 actually for judge Juan merchin when it looked like he was going to go ahead with his sentencing in in mid July of course that was stopped because of the Supreme Court decision but uh it was submitted to him and actually will be submitted to all judges all relevant judges to show uh how dangerous Donald Trump is and we were able to quantify it we were able to quantify it through uh a psychopathy checklist which you don't need a personal interview to perform in fact personal interviews actually take away from accuracy much of the time because they lie deceive and manipulate um and uh through a violence um uh violence risk assessment guide and so uh we able to quantify his dangerousness and I hope people will uh 37:03 pick up and read the book that we have now put out that contains not only this uh dangerousness risk assessment and not only Dr Weston's 200 item scale results but the assessment from 40 top psychiatrists and mental health experts in the country who are stating unanimously that Donald Trump is medically dangerous for the presidency I want to throw you a curveball with regard to this because what I'm seeing from a lot of Maga Republicans supporters aside from his inner circle is that they know this they know that he's troubled some might know that he's nuts but they still want him to win because it's they project that it's Democrats saying that he's mentally ill 38:05 and therefore in order to own the libs they want to take the risk with American democracy putting him in some are even saying well we need a dictator you know democracy hasn't worked why don't we why shouldn't we try having a a dictator and and that is what is most sad about this storyline is that people are now so brainwashed by the Donald Trump contagion that even his admission that he'll be a dictator on day one doesn't scare them well nothing will matter at this point nothing he says nothing that happens to him people keep thinking that uh if there were more deaths that were revealed from the covid-19 pandemic his gross mismanagement uh if he did more horrible things if he 39:01 deteriorated further mentally that his followers will wake up it actually is the reverse uh the more his severe symptoms spread the more they will follow him uh and and it is precisely because he is so egregious because he uh his symptoms are so severe and he is so Gravely impaired that more people will not diverge from their uh their their support of him and that is the mental health principle that we have tried to warn against uh that we had to intervene early while people still had Insight while their own uh critical thinking capacities their rational thinking abilities were still intact Steve Hassen uh who wrote The 40:04 Cult of trump whom you mentioned as well uh at the conference spoke about uh a cult following as a dissociative state that means you are disconnected from your uh beliefs your background your own personality your own agency and that is very much what happens also with spread of symptoms when you are uh affected by a severely mentally impaired person in a powerful position who has spread his symptoms through emotional bonds the people who take on the symptoms come to look exactly like the primary individual it's not that they have a psychosis or uh a personality disorder themselves but as long as the exposure is in place 41:01 they look identical and they will simply be Echo uh mini trumps and tools for Donald Trump's ends the cure for that is separation removal of exposure and what we see uh that's the situation called f or it could be any number f sank um or that means Madness by the millions and that's what I've been trying to describe as a shared psychosis where the individuals themselves are not individually psychotic but as a group they act as if they were psychotic and detached from reality and the more severe the symptoms the more severe the shared psychosis the stronger uh the shared symptoms and that is why when Donald Trump tells a big lie 42:05 such as the entire 2020 election was stolen it's much more gripping than a small lie not only because he topples people they think that he cannot possibly tell such a lie but because it is a severe symptom in this case he cannot accept any Poss possibility of loss so uh that's um that's what we're seeing and it is well it's it's actually one of our duties as mental health professionals to intervene when there are such uh dangers to the public it's our legal and ethical responsibility that somehow the American Psychiatric Association reversed uh as being unethical to 43:02 actually fulfill our societal Duty we've seen Trump Contagion on uh really very much laid be this week with the conviction of Tina Peters this is the former Colorado county clerk who promoted 2020 election conspiracy theory she was sentenced on Thursday to 9 years behind bars after being convicted of char es including official misconduct in connection with a a security breach of Messa County's voting system she she was associated with Mike Lindell of my pillow who's a prominent election denier and Ally of of trump and she really gave the judge a lot of lip it was very interesting when he was sentencing her she or before the sentencing she was still convinced that the election was stolen she was still convinced that the judge was wrong she was still convinced that he'd somehow 44:03 got confused and that he hadn't read the documents that she had presented properly when he had and so when it came to him handing down the sentencing he gave her a 15minute speech telling her that she you know she's getting a strong sentence because she is completely in denial about the extent of her abuse of power I I found the interchange very very interesting that she CU I always think you know do these people know do they know that the election wasn't stolen they're just saying it because they're so devoted to Donald Trump so how deep does the contagion go do they genuinely think that it was stolen from him or are they just playing a role Ro in order to shake things up there are many levels and many uh different uh 45:05 ways in which Trump contagion spreads and uh some may be Wishful uh belief others may be um uh instrumental uh for some other uh motivation but all are emotionally driven not fact driven so fact becomes less relevant to the emotional need to butress his lies and and they eventually if they are like Donald Trump himself they will convince themselves and truly believe it because of uh the investment which becomes a psychic uh compulsion it's it's very interesting to me that you talk about the levels of this and everybody is going to be connected to somebody in their family or 46:01 friends group that has been radicalized by Trump contagion Trump has his own phrase for Democrats who criticize him he calls it Trump derangement syndrome it's like a projection because it's clear that he is the one who is deranged and so what that does is he seeks to den deny that anybody who has criticism of him or even a an opinion of his of his mental health is either obsessed with him or has their own derangement as well how do you feel when you hear Trump talking about this derangement syndrome that he that he projects oh yes they are very accurate at describing what's going on with them projection is severe and severely impaired individuals and it gets to the point where whatever they say of others is very accurate about what's going on 47:05 with themselves When Donald Trump calls others rapists murderers he's actually speaking of himself when he says there's a trump derangement syndrome problem he's describing his followers and unfortunately because it is of a level that the general population was never prepared for uh was never familiar with most of the population anyway unless they've been victims of this in which case they immediately recognize it and uh victims of uh narcissistic or Psychopathic abuse were the first to recognize Donald Trump uh even more so than experts when he was first elected that's why I was inundated with phone calls the morning after his election uh but the population in general was never 48:05 prepared for this that is why mental health experts needed to come out on mass which we tried to do in fact because in the very early days when there was no censorship um we were uh I was on the news the the mo all the major news programs invited me I was interviewing 15 hours a day every single day we were the number one topic of national conversation within three months of our book becoming an instant New York Times bestseller and we needed to speak and the public was hungry for our information that's why our book was such an unprecedented bestseller that the McMillan was unprepared for it it took them five weeks to catch up uh uh and it was at the sorry to interrupt you but is 49:00 it that mental health is such an unknown quantity that the media H they like to they like to insulate themselves from any discussion of mental health that wasn't the case ref to individuals uh that wasn't the case in the beginning I feel that that was artificially induced because I was actually very impressed that there was no distinction of mental health I felt that the Decades of mental health awareness campaigns had actually removed all stigma because all the networks were willing to invite me and uh were in the process of inviting me when the American Psychiatric association came in very aggressively and in ways I had never seen them do before uh just pronouncing loudly that we were all being unethical even though I wasn't even a member of their Association and they had not done any interview of me they were breaking their own Goldwater Rule and yet stating that we were not to be listened to because we 50:04 were breaking the Goldwater rule that's very interesting I didn't realize that you weren't even a member of the association and I think that we should remind people that only 6% I think you've said before of mental health professionals are members o of of of that kind of Association and and anyone can make up an association that's the other thing you know it's it's all in the letterhead and we and it maybe even less than 6% now because there was a huge Exodus from the APA after this happened including top uh officers high ranking officers Le let's let's go back to this projection because I want to quote Donald Trump from his rally in Eerie Pennsylvania when he and I'll just quote him for a second he said crooked Joe Biden became mentally impaired sad but lying Kam Harris or or Cala Harris as he says honestly I believe she was born that way there's something wrong with Cala I just don't know what it is but 51:06 there is definitely something missing and you know what everybody knows it so he gets her name wrong on purpose as I just did that's one way of him insulting her and obviously has racist undertones but secondly this projection of there's something wrong with her is he saying there's something wrong with me and the only way I can prevent people from finding out is by diverting their attention to his opposition and primarily diverting his own attention because a lot of this happens unconsciously and that's why it's so powerful our unconscious mental process Es are far more powerful and uh there's a lot more going on than we're aware of 52:03 uh he is describing himself to the tea he believes that he is uh mentally impaired from very early on it appears so that he was wounded and his uh development was arrested around two to 3 years old and he uh doesn't um believe that he is uh capable his um he projects in order to deny what he believes he is and he uh that's how he can get rid of it he projects it onto his opponents attack the opponents and that's how you get rid of your problem of course it's a pathological problem uh process that will not solve any problem but that is how that is why he's disordered and this is what he does that 53:00 is why it was critical for mental health experts to recognize this because it's something we see all the time and deal with it deal with all the time uh to be able to inform the public that this is the process that's happening we have to intervene we have to uh limit his exposure to the public and uh and to state that this is beyond the realm of normaly the crucial contribution that mental health professionals could have made is to distinguish between what is within the vast spectrum of human normaly versus what is abnormal when we get into the realm of abnormality then it becomes uh as I said it can become very contagious it can become it it's naturally destructive that's why disease is distinguished from Health any healthy 54:00 ideology can is life affirming but any pathological process no matter the ideology a so-called ideology they adopt or whatever methods they claim to be using will eventually be destructive perhaps to others before the self but eventually to all the way I see it or the effect of trumpism is that because the he doesn't operate within any protocols or structure that goes with the office of a political leader let alone the president whereby you don't criticize the opposition as if they are the enemy so he's elevated her from being opposition to enemy and now uses the phrase the enemy the enemy and it's almost kind of weird hitler-like kind of military language but but also because of his 55:02 status he sets a precedent for his supporters to talk in that way too and so it's as if 50 years has evolved 50 years of of back chat political discourse has evolved in 10 years in 10 years we have we we have kind of we haven't even wound the clock back because it was never done like that in fact years ago there were many more protocols with how you behaved and I think back to a a very famous interview on British television where Margaret Thatcher was interviewed by a very famous political interviewer called s Robin day who used to wear a giant bow tie he asked her a slight curveball question this is in the 1970s and her answer was well I'm not going to answer that I'm the prime minister and to me that was really an example of how there was this separation of of 56:03 office and everybody else where you you you know you you just maintain some decorum and some respectability with limits there's no limits with Donald Trump and consequently people who look up to him they will think well if it's good enough for him to say to to back chat and to have all this abusive language then it's good enough for me too and that's what sadly we are left with that is why he is so dangerous and not only does he break norms and have no limits he will subvert and reverse health and disease what is healthy is sick and disabled and what is sick is what is healthy and what is criminal is what is is acceptable and whoever acts on principle of trying to uphold the law or ethics or hold him 57:04 accountable is the bad guy whom he's going to persecute and that is why Norms institutions and standards fall away when we have a mentally unfit person in such a powerful uh with such powerful influence we we have take another quick break but I want to come back and uh quote Dr James Gilligan who spoke at your conference and talk about he described the the the Maga Republican voter uh and I I want to talk to you about some of the interesting points that he made there we'll do that next here on the weekend show I'm excited to tell you about moink that's moo plus oink moink is a meat subscription Box Company on a mission to fight for the family farm they're located in Rural America run by an eighth generation female farmer their animals are raised humanely their employees are paid a living wage and the quality of their product is better than 58:04 anything you'll find in a store Mike delivers grass-fed and grass-finished beef and lamb pastured pork and chicken and sustainable wild Court Alaskan salmon straight to your door moik Farmers Farm like our grandparents did and as a result moik meat tastes like it should because the Family Farm does it better and the moink difference is a difference you can taste unlike the supermarket Mike gives you total control over the quality and source of your food you can choose the meat delivered in every box like ribe eyes to chicken breasts pork chops to salmon fillets and much more plus you can cancel any time moink is helping to save Rural America join the moink movement today keep American farming going by signing up at Mbox docomo and listeners to this show get free hot r rolls in your first box the best hot rolls you'll ever taste but for 59:00 a limited time spell m oi n k box.com weekend that's Mbox do.com weekend we're back with Dr Bandy Lee I'm Anthony Davis uh let's talk about uh let's go back to the conference because it really was fascinating and I do encourage people to to watch it in in full uh and I'll put links to that in in the bottom of the description here but I want to talk to James Gilligan Dr James Gilligan he's the former director of the Harvard Institute of Law and Psychiatry former chair of President Clinton's national campaign against youth violence and he was talking about Trump voters he he talked that about them being white invariably male and I thought that was interesting and and I want to talk about machismo as a bit of a theme with with Trump supporters he said less educated High school or less education he said but in others there are people who feel that they have lost relative status because of the increased democratization 1:00:05 that occurred in America when the civil rights legislation came about he said segregation was outlawed disenfranchisement was outlawed and so forth he said and the increased status that women have have had with women's movement he said that he thinks a lot of white males have felt that they have lost relative superiority relative status and Trump comes along and says I will restore I will make America great again which is an appeal to go back to the past he said before all these civil rights laws and changes to undo all the various forms of misogyny and sexism and homophobia and so forth I found this really interesting and and this is actually a a point that um Dan Partland made who who directed The unfit and untruth documentaries that what what Trump offers people is something that they don't have to do anything for there to bring about change 1:01:02 they can just stay being white and angry and racist and misogynist misogynistic and he's flicks a switch the make America great again switch that gives them license to be all those things and it's okay in American society and and and I think this kind of connects with what Dr Gilligan is say that actually people just want to feel like they can be racist again make America white again make America machismo again and Donald Trump represents all those things without his followers having to lift a finger well that is the psychology that is provoked and encouraged in times of deprivation in fact I've worked with Dr Gilligan for decades now um he's my mentor and uh when we have been working on violence prevention projects prison 1:02:03 reform projects we have found that a great uh a grave risk factor for violence is structural violence that is uh the the rising gap between the rich and the poor over time uh in in the US it's marked since the mid to late 70s uh and that is how the US has diverged from the rest of uh the developed World especially Europe and this kind of uh rapid rise in inequality can has a mental health effect uh when you start dividing the population in your mind between Superior and inferior individuals you will 1:03:01 increasingly go toward other kinds of inequality so so when you are relatively deprived and increasingly deprived economically because inequality means that there there are just a few people at the top who have everything and then a vast majority who have less and less and um when you have this kind of division other Visions also become more pronounced albeit racism and sexism have been perennial in uh in this country and have been severe but during times of increasing economic inequality which is what we've been seeing for decades uh the uh the next um subsequent phenomenon is that we'll see arise in sexism racism natives versus immigrants uh uh those who are um those who are high class versus low class in any uh kind of 1:04:06 division and the reason is because as you stated they're uh they're grasping for other ways to have self-respect because uh the greatest loss in inequality is uh the lack the the loss of self-respect and uh the humiliation the shame that comes with it because societies that are uh uniformly poor do not have that problem and also societies that operate a kind of social democracy we've seen it in we see in some Scandinavian countries who and admittedly they're much smaller countries but they it's so baked into their system of governance that equality is what makes 1:05:00 life better for everybody and we just don't have that here and that's something I really struggled with when I first moved to the US was that people genuinely didn't want others to have free health care with the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare whatever you choose to call it that because it's like well if I have to pay how come they get it at a discount or for free and I I I really I couldn't get my head around that obviously I come from a country where where you know healthc care is is you baked into the tax system but it it doesn't really make sense to me that there is this division where you might have all the great riches yourself or be you know middle class and doing okay with a decent job and a decent salary and yet you choose to think of people beneath you as of of of lower quality individuals and we see this with homelessness all the time there are always people who denigrate 1:06:00 homeless people without any thought about how they got there and they just want them rid they they think it's better if the city comes and moves these people on takes them off the street they care not where they end up as long as it's outside their District or their state or whatever and obviously the same is true of immigrants yes so there is this two types of thinking yes but that's Democrats and Republicans though isn't it I mean is it as is it as binary as that that Democrats understand the concept of inclusivity and and and a fairer Society where the rich help the poor and then consequently everybody helps each other and Republicans are like actually you got to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and you know if you work hard you'll get it and there's no allowance for mental impairment there's no allowance for abuse or addiction or any of the things that all of us can fall foul of in 1:07:04 societies it it does I hate to label groups social groups but it does seem that politically in the US the Republicans represent that group who are very you know have have maybe lucked out born White born wealthy and born into opportunity or at at least fantasize that they can be a part of that group because of their whiteness or maleness or their lots of people who are currently identifying with Donald Trump even though Trump himself would never share uh any kind of setting with the individuals who follow him uh would not even go near them would not shake their hands um but uh that's a pH phenon called identification with the aggressor the person who is actually harming you and 1:08:02 taking things away from you you identify with because it is too painful to think that you are helpless against them it is psychologically more bearable to think that they are actually doing what is good for you and what fighting for you and what is uh advantageous to you and when it becomes too severe to even contemplate what is really happening then you yourself will deny it in every way possible that is seen in traumatic bonding in uh the famous uh Stockholm incident where uh uh a number of women were kidnapped and taken hostage uh the women because they were in such a terrifying situation where their captors 1:09:01 they were helpless against captors who were who who actually held the power of life or death over them that they reversed Their Fear into believing that uh their captors were wonderful people one woman got engaged with the person uh the other uh set up a fund to the defense of uh one of their captors when when they were fighting their criminal cases in court this is when the same thing as the big lie telling big lies are um they're actually denigrating and violating other people's sense of AG and Independence and uh right to know the truth so big lies are even 1:10:04 greater uh acts of violence against Their audience but uh there are so many more people who believe him believe Donald Trump and so many more people who are willing to follow him because they do not wish to think that they could have been uh bought into to uh or man manipulated manipulated because it's I suppose it's in insulting and I I actually lost a friend over this because I told him that he'd been radicalized and he was so insulted by my use of language which in hindsight was maybe a little too explicit and I well you can never tell them what is actually happening right it only arouses their defenses yes and so what you need to do is to change the circumstances so that they feel that they have a way out that they can still 1:11:04 be your friend can still be accepted as a family member even if they left their cult and in fact that's what uh Dr Hassen was describing at the conference um and this is what I recommend for those who are recovering from being parts of street gangs or uh having followed uh the the aggressive leader the strongest person of the pack in prison blocks this is very often what happens and and people need to have way uh a psychologically safe space where they like like a mental Gateway where they can actually kind of they there's an off-ramp for them and you know that's that's my concern is that we we spend so much time compartmentalizing you know putting people into into these boxes But ultimately we we need to be given or afforded the 1:12:07 opportunity to change if we choose extending extending uh friendship extending a human hand and understanding and respect even if you do not agree with them and even if they are being self-destructive that is the way to deal with such individuals and uh also but above all to change the circumstances that got them there in the first place we need to remove Donald Trump from the public sphere if we are to return to a state of mental Collective mental health and that is the the overarching theme of the conference which again was not a political conference but a medical one let's go back to um some more of uh Dr Gilligan's analysis because he referenced the mistake that Hillary 1:13:03 Clinton made back in 2016 and that was referring to Trump voters as deplorables he said it's the worst thing we can do is refer to them as deplorables he said that we have to recognize they're basically the same as the rest of us they're as intelligent they are not Psychopaths um they're just following a psychopath and we have to find a way to be understanding and generous and treat people with respect even when we think they're making great mistakes and really harming themselves as well as other people he said when you tell people they're in danger it tends to mobilize them in or mobilize some people more and in their paranoid core he said The more we're aware of the fact that danger be can be constructed we can attack all of Trump's personality disorders but the fact is that he appeals to people and we have to understand that not in a kind way but in a technical way that there is more paranoia in the population so so respect 1:14:07 not referring to people as deplorables is a is a great place to start and to have compassion and I guess again if we're going back to those kind of binary um compartmentalized positions for republicans and Democrats I do believe that Democrats are far more compassion towards Trump supporters who have been radicalized or consumed by Trump contagion than Republicans would ever be towards Democrats having a far more inclusive view of society oh well it would be hard to match Trump followers who have taken on his aggression his assaultiveness and his uh ways of just uh entering into attack mode if anyone were to disagree with him or uh challenge his views and so uh well we 1:15:02 have to treat people with respect because anyone can get caught up in the Trump contagion anyone can be infected with his symptoms it is not their real personality and we need to also give them uh rigorous scientific information the technical information that is necessary to see correctly what is happening for those who are able to see and to be able to intervene in ways that are appropriate to the situation we wouldn't ask a lawyer to uh determine what to do with the covid-19 pandemic we wouldn't uh ask the weathermen to solve mental health problems why are we allowing uh anyone to comment on the current Mental Health crisis that we have while blocking out mental the actual relevant mental health 1:16:03 experts I think mental health has always been Taboo in the same way that mortality and and death has been taboo these are subjects that in American society we haven't we've never really talked about whereas you can look to other nations and see they have a completely different view of both of those subjects and it also Chang in though change it it changes because uh the more mentally impaired you are the less you can address a mental health problem as uh a mental health problem that's what happens with uh mental patients you can tell how severely they are afflicted by how uh obstinately they avoid mental health help in fact they run as far as they can from doctors and hospitals even as they insist that nothing is mentally wrong with them and that is in very 1:17:02 accurate portrayal of Donald Trump as an individual is that he he will he would never agree to an assessment in any great detail other than man woman person camera TV which he keeps celebrating as being his his great success that is why it's so dangerous to give him a false fraudulent mental fitness test as Dr Ronnie Jackson did right because especially one who is unfit will certainly pressure you to affirm his Fitness but uh once you give that to him he will go off to the races that he is some kind of Genius based on that non-est it's so interesting that that this critique that people place that you cannot assess somebody without actually 1:18:01 being in the room with them is so voided by the number of opportunities that Donald Trump has given you and other mental health professionals to to assess him through the television you know because most people are not on television right most people are not on the news every day most people are not on podcasts talking to the camera and and yet he is is so he has given you and other professionals more to work with than probably any client that you would ever have in session that was the consensus among Harvard psychiatrists that one time in early 2019 when I gave Grand rounds uh it is a fallacy to state that we would have any kind of information that is uh more valuable from a a session of one or two hours compared to the longitudinal over decades enormous amount hundreds of hours of footage yes exactly so when we 1:19:05 see something we have to say something that was as Dr Zak has said at the conference um we have to finish in a minute but I just wanted to reference the fact that that judge Tanya chucken has allowed this document to be unsealed slightly redacted this is from Jack Smith's office the special prosecutor who is you know seeking a prosecution about Trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election I mean reading through these 165 pages I have found fascinating even the redacted version that this was a criminal plan from the outset how does Donald Trump position himself mentally to think that he can get away with with something that is so flawed I mean this plan might have seemed like a mastermind from his 1:20:01 perspective and from those around him but to criminal psychologists or or anybody with experience this was a this was a terrible plan it there was so many breadcrumbs were left there was so much evidence was was was there to be gathered and actually provided that they can circumnavigate the Supreme Court's ruling on immunity which is the whole point of this filing that he stands a very good chance of being prosecuted as an enemy of the United States absolutely well he's untethered from reality that's why in his fantasy world anything that he says should go uh ought to go and when it doesn't he bullies and threatens and uh and attacks in order to get his way and the more we uh refuse or or fail to contain him 1:21:02 the more he will in his mind his worldview is affirmed and the more he will become uh dangerous he will simply have no limit in the extents to which he will expand in criminality aggressiveness and uh destructiveness toward the country as long as he's not uh held accountable okay we have to finish but I'm so grateful to you for this intelligence this series and and I'm pleased that our viewers have been able to contribute and to support your conference which was a great success and we'll put videos out detailing and presenting the the findings of the conference but also there is a full version all three hours of the conference will be available to to be viewed at your website at dangerous case.com is that right dangerous 1:22:00 case.org or dangerous case.com and and I'm so grateful to you uh many people have told me that finally our voices are being heard and that is through your program and because of this we were able to hold the conference because of uh citizen donations and uh the help of the public and we are still uh we still have a lot to will become uh dangerous he will simply have no limit in the extents to which he will expand in criminality aggressiveness and uh destructiveness toward the country as long as he's not uh held accountable okay we have to finish but I'm so grateful to you for this intelligence this series and and I'm pleased that our viewers have been able to contribute and to support your conference which was a great success and we'll put videos out detailing and presenting the the findings of the conference but also there is a full version all three hours of the conference will be available to to be viewed at your website at dangerous case.com is that right dangerous 1:22:00 case.org or dangerous case.com and and I'm so grateful to you uh many people have told me that finally our voices are being heard and that is through your program and because of this we were able to hold the conference because of uh citizen donations and uh the help of the public and we are still uh we still have a lot to do in getting this information widely disseminated and and will still continue to need your help so please visit dangerous case.org thank you thanks Anthony thank you Dr Bandy Lee my thanks to Dr Bandy Lee I'm Anthony Davis don't forget to support me and independent journalism at patreon.com minute news you can see more from me on the 5 minute news YouTube channel and I'll come back next Sunday with a brand new special guest and more factual news to discuss on the 5 minute news weekend show with myus touch [Music]

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